User Tag List

First 23456 Last

Results 31 to 40 of 60

  1. #31
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 so/sx
    Posts
    2,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    From an understanding of what marriage is, it makes sense to have it correlate with the beginning of cohabitation.

    I've wondered for people like me who lived together before marriage, what is the purpose of marriage? For us we were content with our personal commitment and did not consider the contract of marriage to be necessary, but society pressures it to have family privilege for medical communication, and to provide health insurance for a spouse when a company will not permit it for a partner, to be able to file jointly for taxes. I felt marriage is externally pragmatic because it doesn't have the religious significance for me at this point. I also feel like the personal commitment is where the real meaning lies. I have known atheists who are very committed to the concept of marriage, and I do not understand the reasoning behind it.


    I would say that marriage is the personal/religious commitment. and the legal aspect is simply pragmatic. I don't think the government has the power to validate marriage, it only extends benefits to people it recognizes as married. I would think those atheist are passionate about legal marriage because it's sort of the highest authority that can confirm their union rather than God or gods.

  2. #32
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6
    Posts
    24,060

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Sure, that makes perfect sense. It's just that I get the feeling that - sometimes - there is a silent judgment against the absence of such attitude.
    You haven't gotten that feeling from me.

    Edit: or if you have, you've been wrong.

  3. #33
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    isfp
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    8,584

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    I think the idea that you could see your relationship only lasting so long sort of invalidates the idea that that person is extremely important to you. The idea of actually combining your life with another person. That your momentarily feelings won't overpower the value you have for that other person.
    My question is this: Is marriage a requirement for committing for a lifetime? Why can't that be achieved in a personal bond? Even if we hadn't married I certainly would not have seen our relationship as only lasting so long. I would still picture us growing old together and being a support through the process of dying as well as living. I feel like I am personally monogamous and do not need it externally validated in order for it to be the most important internal value to me. We did get married and I enjoyed our little ceremony, so I'm not antagonistic to it, but to be completely honest, I don't fully understand the externally imposed requirement. We are both intensely private people, so the external aspect feels weird to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    It would for me to be a kind of big final celebration, I would like to have enough money to make it big enough, so that everyone could have fun and remember it.
    That does make sense, and is why people feel especially happy at weddings. These also serve as a way for extended families to reconnect. i was thinking that without weddings that many family members might never see one another. I can see the social aspect of it especially for people more extroverted than myself and my partner who only had three other people at our actual wedding. I guess the big celebration wouldn't make sense just to celebrate the beginning of a relationship, but people could make more of the event of having a baby and bring the whole family together in joy.

    Having been through a marriage that ended, I have a different perspective and felt more keenly how many external judgments accompany this concept of marriage. The most intense aspect of it is that you are not legally recognized as family until officially married. Because marriage is derived from religious concepts of morality and partnership in many cultures, it tends to be tied to many external judgments. I would say that relationships should be based on the specific two individuals and allow the nature of that bond to grow from those specific needs rather than having an external concept accompanied by many social expectations imposed on everyone.

    I can see some of the arguments in favor of it, but it still is a question worth exploring in more detail rather than accepting it as a social norm. I can see aspects that are positive for individuals and society and aspects that are destructive in some cases.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  4. #34
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Socionics
    ENTj
    Posts
    5,908

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    You haven't gotten that feeling from me.

    Edit: or if you have, you've been wrong.
    No I haven't, but that is the reason why I was prodding a bit
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  5. #35
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 so/sx
    Posts
    2,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Mhmh, why is before-marriage necessarily a "courtship"? Lots of people live together before getting married


    I've never seen the appeal of living with someone you aren't married to. If you aren't confident enough to make a permanent commitment why bother to start entangling you lives with shared property. Why go through the effort of merging lives if there's a chance you'll have to expend even more effort in a separation.

  6. #36
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Socionics
    ENTj
    Posts
    5,908

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    I've never seen the appeal of living with someone you aren't married to. If you aren't confident enough to make a permanent commitment why bother to start entangling you lives with shared property. Why go through the effort of merging lives if there's a chance you'll have to expend even more effort in a separation.
    The chance is there even with marriage; besides, the appeal is...enjoying living with them? You make it sound as if living with SO is a duty rather than something you really try to enjoy doing, day to day...that's sad.

    There isnt much effort, you find a house, start living there, big deal (shared property? You don't have to buy a house...).
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  7. #37
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 so/sx
    Posts
    2,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    My question is this: Is marriage a requirement for committing for a lifetime? Why can't that be achieved in a personal bond? Even if we hadn't married I certainly would not have seen our relationship as only lasting so long. I would still picture us growing old together and being a support through the process of dying as well as living. I feel like I am personally monogamous and do not need it externally validated in order for it to be the most important internal value to me. We did get married and I enjoyed our little ceremony, so I'm not antagonistic to it, but to be completely honest, I don't fully understand the externally imposed requirement. We are both intensely private people, so the external aspect feels weird to me.

    I think I answered this in another later post. Marriage to me isn't the legal recognition but the personal commitment. I think the religious motivation isn't really an external imposition of commitment but more.......vowing to the highest authority in the universe that you will take on the responsibilities of being married. Other people may vow that to the state. Other people may feel to need to only vow that to each other or their families.


    Marriage to me is consciously deciding to permanently combine lives. I think you can do this with out "getting married" in the sense of having a ceremony or having it legally recognized. Marriage being a state of relationship rather than not an event.

    hard to describe

  8. #38
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6
    Posts
    24,060

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    The chance is there even with marriage; besides, the appeal is...enjoying living with them? You make it sound as if living with SO is a duty rather than something you really try to enjoy doing, day to day...that's sad.

    There isnt much effort, you find a house, start living there, big deal (shared property? You don't have to buy a house...).

    You don't have to buy, but signing a lease can complicate things if you later want to get out of the relationship. And being married offers the cohabitants some legal protections in the event of the end of the union. The flipside of that is that it's a lot harder to extricate yourself from a marriage. It's really a matter of what the individuals and the couples need at the time. I can see it both ways. My sister lived with her husband before they were married and it worked out great for them- they saved money by pooling their resources and paying only one rent between them, and were able to start their marriage in a new home together. But my little brother is currently in an unhealthy relationship where his GF uses the fact that he'd have to break the lease to move out against him to get her way. It really comes down to the health of the relationship and the individuals in it. Marriage isn't going to make an unhealthy relationship healthy, and cohabitation isn't going to make a healthy relationship unhealthy.

  9. #39
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Socionics
    ENTj
    Posts
    5,908

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    That does make sense, and is why people feel especially happy at weddings. These also serve as a way for extended families to reconnect. i was thinking that without weddings that many family members might never see one another. I can see the social aspect of it especially for people more extroverted than myself and my partner who only had three other people at our actual wedding. I guess the big celebration wouldn't make sense just to celebrate the beginning of a relationship, but people could make more of the event of having a baby and bring the whole family together in joy.

    Having been through a marriage that ended, I have a different perspective and felt more keenly how many external judgments accompany this concept of marriage. The most intense aspect of it is that you are not legally recognized as family until officially married. Because marriage is derived from religious concepts of morality and partnership in many cultures, it tends to be tied to many external judgments. I would say that relationships should be based on the specific two individuals and allow the nature of that bond to grow from those specific needs rather than having an external concept accompanied by many social expectations imposed on everyone.
    Yea, you got the point with the celebration thingy. I've been to a wonderful marriage of a friend of my girlfriend, which was organized in a real medieval castle, with around 60 people invited. The atmosphere was absolutely wonder, as well as the party and food. I do think celebrations like these mean something in the "collective" mind of the attendants, and well, provides some entertainment / celebration.

    I also understand the part related to social expectations, even though I do think it is slowly changing a little bit, since most people I know have lived together for 2-3-4 years before getting married, some even had 1-2 children.

    You don't have to buy, but signing a lease can complicate things if you later want to get out of the relationship. And being married offers the cohabitants some legal protections in the event of the end of the union. The flipside of that is that it's a lot harder to extricate yourself from a marriage.
    Ahah, if you put it in that dry-legal way, I lose any kind of willingness to get married. I personally view marriage in a more romantic way, it has to be forever (I mean, as long as both are alive) and it has to be celebrated in a big way, which requires time and resources (to make sure that it's forever, and well, to have enough money). I don't like being pragmatic in relationships.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  10. #40
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 so/sx
    Posts
    2,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    The chance is there even with marriage; besides, the appeal is...enjoying living with them? You make it sound as if living with SO is a duty rather than something you really try to enjoy doing, day to day...that's sad.

    There isnt much effort, you find a house, start living there, big deal (shared property? You don't have to buy a house...).

    Find a house you can both afford, that's near both your work and activities, moving in, that you can fill with things you have to agree on, when's dinner, who does the laundry, who does the dishes, trash, what's our budget like, how late can we be noisy, what type of people come over and how often, who does the bills. Can you get pets

    I wouldn't want to deal with all these growing pains if I was just going to have to deal with them again with someone else. I can still enjoy my relationship while maintaining my own space.


    And then if it doesn't work out. What do we do with the things we bought together? split them, sell them and split the cash. DO i move out, do you move out. Who keeps our pets. Find a new place, move in, re buy the things your ex took.



    I don't think it's sad to think about these things, it's just realistic.

Similar Threads

  1. New Lame College Student Looking For Answers On Their MBTI
    By Yoohoolarry in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 03-14-2015, 08:04 AM
  2. Study: Porn Stars More Religious, Have Higher Self-Esteem Than Other Women
    By swordpath in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 11-27-2012, 11:06 AM
  3. Poor College Student: Will Perform Non-Sexual Tasks for Money
    By Brendan in forum Academics and Careers
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 10-17-2010, 11:27 AM
  4. Online textbook price comparison site for college students
    By Usehername in forum Academics and Careers
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-28-2010, 01:37 AM
  5. Why is J/P more significant for Sensors than for iNTuitors?
    By compulsiverambler in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 11-09-2009, 08:00 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO