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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrinth View Post
    Sort of, but not quite. I just have significant difficulty organizing my thoughts in a coherent manner. I kind of think in concepts, so when put into words they often lose something.

    After some additional thought, I believe that my opinion on this can be crudely summarized as: I have no problem with this, as long as it works, because any problems I can see lie with the system that put the people in prison, not the prison itself.

    meow

  2. #22
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrinth View Post
    If it works better than the standard system, I see no problem with it. If it doesn't work better than the standard system, do away with it. I really don't get what the problem is, but then again, I'm a person who believes that more crimes should carry the death penalty, so I'm apparently unlike most of you on this forum.
    I'm not against the death penalty in theory. In reality, our justice system is such that I think we run too great a risk of executing innocent people.

    I think there are probably better ways to reduce recidivism than the methods described in this thread, but even if there are not, I don't think we want to set the precedent for cruelty that seems to be being set in that system. When I was a kid during the Cold War, there used to be talk about people in the USSR being sent to Siberia. It was considered a cruel, even UnAmerican thing to do to prisoners. I guess we're okay with that kind of thing now. I think that's scary and sad.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  3. #23
    ... Tyrinth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasoline View Post
    meow
    Dare I ask what that's supposed to mean?
    ...

  4. #24
    ... Tyrinth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I'm not against the death penalty in theory. In reality, our justice system is such that I think we run too great a risk of executing innocent people.

    I think there are probably better ways to reduce recidivism than the methods described in this thread, but even if there are not, I don't think we want to set the precedent for cruelty that seems to be being set in that system. When I was a kid during the Cold War, there used to be talk about people in the USSR being sent to Siberia. It was considered a cruel, even UnAmerican thing to do to prisoners. I guess we're okay with that kind of thing now. I think that's scary and sad.
    I would say that people ending up being punished for crimes they didn't commit and people being imprisoned for crimes that really shouldn't carry jail-time in the first place are two of the biggest problems with our justice system. Honestly, if it weren't for those two things I don't think I'd have any problem at all with this situation, so don't think I haven't considered them. However, like I said, I believe this to be a problem with the punishment assignment part of the system, and I don't think that changing the punishment itself is the right thing to focus on.

    If there are better ways to reduce recidivism, I'm all for them, and I would prefer them over a prison system that doesn't work. However, if being harsher does reduce recidivism, then I see no problem with being harsher. That being said, I also believe that there are people out there who should simply be removed from society. Whether your means of doing so is by life-imprisonment or death is irrelevant to me. (Honestly, I see death as being less harsh than life in prison, but that's just me.)
    ...

  5. #25
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrinth View Post
    I would say that people ending up being punished for crimes they didn't commit and people being imprisoned for crimes that really shouldn't carry jail-time in the first place are two of the biggest problems with our justice system. Honestly, if it weren't for those two things I don't think I'd have any problem at all with this situation, so don't think I haven't considered them. However, like I said, I believe this to be a problem with the punishment assignment part of the system, and I don't think that changing the punishment itself is the right thing to focus on.

    If there are better ways to reduce recidivism, I'm all for them, and I would prefer them over a prison system that doesn't work. However, if being harsher does reduce recidivism, then I see no problem with being harsher. That being said, I also believe that there are people out there who should simply be removed from society. Whether your means of doing so is by life-imprisonment or death is irrelevant to me. (Honestly, I see death as being less harsh than life in prison, but that's just me.)
    That seems pretty reasonable. I guess I'd like to see how the former inmates end up after release. Do they become functional members of society, disabled due to physical and/or emotional trauma, do they just move to another area and continue committing crimes?

    There can be value in hardship. It can teach you a lot about yourself and build confidence, etc. I don't think this guy should be doing it, though. I find it extremely difficult to believe that he has the interests of the inmates at heart rather than just getting off on being an asshole.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  6. #26

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    As someone who is a native of Arizona, I can say that I have more issues with the laws than the enforcement. If you get busted with a joint, that's a felony there. I have an issue with that. I don't have an issue with tent city, in and of itself. Not all criminals go to tent city. It is one place you can go, but there are plenty of "regular" jails too. You don't get pulled over for speeding and end up there.

    I very rarely recall issues of inmates in tent city being "overcome" by the heat. When you live there, you're used to 116. Soldiers in Iraq have it worse and they didn't do anything criminal to end up there. Laborers work in that heat, too. It's not any more cruel for inmates to live and work in the heat than anyone else.

    I also agree that inmates shouldn't have luxuries that regular taxpayers don't. I didn't have cable or access to health equipment until I was a grown adult paying for it myself. Millions of non incarcerated people eat Bologna every day. And why is pink underwear worse than hideous orange jumpsuits?

    Sheriff Joe is a hard ass, yes. I don't know that he gets off on it tho. I honestly can't say.

    besides, isn't the idea that you're not supposed to like prison? You're supposed to hate it enough to not want to go back. It's not supposed to be comfortable or easy.

    And I will reiterate, I don't agree with the laws, necessarily. There are a lot of issues there. Border states in particular have there own unique issues that aren't as prevalent in Iowa, for example. That is a whole other can of worms.

    Assuming people deserve to be there (which is a separate gray area), I don't really have an issue with the punishment.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrinth View Post
    Dare I ask what that's supposed to mean?
    i think in concepts and its far too disorganized in my mind, far too complicated for me to explain, dont worry about it.

    just accept it at that. meow!

  8. #28
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    To my knowledge, shame and pain do not decrease recidivism. They might even increase it. Practical eduction does appear to decrease recidivism, but I'm sure this sheriff would consider that a waste of tax-payer money.

    It's a matter of my basic ethics that I don't really care for malicious retribution, and the only thing that could outweigh it is deterrence, which I doubt it really achieves.

    Something that particularly bothers me is that there are people who could wind up in that camp who didn't do anything I find particularly horrible, predominately drug offenders but there are others, like prostitutes in some cases (they did mention he has women).

    I tend to find most of these tough policies toward criminals dumb. I suppose I initially leaned in that direction, but since working for Probation and Parole and the Department of Correction, I've really come to adopt this view.

    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    I think he gets a sick sort of satisfaction from what he does and for that reason alone should not be allowed to continue. It's more about resentment than trying to make Arizona a better state.
    I, too, highly suspect that this guy's wiring is a little off. I wouldn't want to know him, even if I didn't read that retarded thing about Newt Gingrich and Democrats.
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  9. #29
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    I dig it.

  10. #30
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    Has anybody died from it yet?

    Honestly it doesn't sound all that horrible to me. It could be pretty bad if he works them carelessly without proper medical attention, but we should've heard about that if it's the case.

    So it's damn hot and you only get two channels and sandwiches. Big whoop. In some prisons they beat you or let you rot with the rats.

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