User Tag List

First 56789 Last

Results 61 to 70 of 89

  1. #61
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    Will
    Posts
    5,927

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    If only all women were INTPs...how awesome that would be.
    That's evil and just plain wrong, as we should appreciate the inestimable value of each and every human being, including all personality types, since all people play important roles in keeping the wheelwork of society turning. Without the SJs, generally the most looked down upon group, it would be endless anarchy, and no practical productions would ever come to completion. Without the SPs, another not so highly favored group, society would be devoid of all arts and crafts, and nothing fun nor beautiful would ever spring into being. Without the NFs, there would be a lack of sufficient dimplomacy and spiritual harmony, as well as wars waged that violate the principles of justice. And finally, without the NTs, all rationality and reason as well as the liberating light of logic would be rendered completely obsolete, dooming the world to die in the darkness of ignorance. I hope now you see why a world missing any its essential personality types will falter and fail.

  2. #62
    Doesn't Read Your Posts Haight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTj
    Posts
    6,243

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    That's evil and just plain wrong, as we should appreciate the inestimable value of each and every human being, including all personality types, since all people play important roles in keeping the wheelwork of society turning. Without the SJs, generally the most looked down upon group, it would be endless anarchy, and no practical productions would ever come to completion. Without the SPs, another not so highly favored group, society would be devoid of all arts and crafts, and nothing fun nor beautiful would ever spring into being. Without the NFs, there would be a lack of sufficient dimplomacy and spiritual harmony, as well as wars waged that violate the principles of justice. And finally, without the NTs, all rationality and reason as well as the liberating light of logic would be rendered completely obsolete, dooming the world to die in the darkness of ignorance. I hope now you see why a world missing any its essential personality types will falter and fail.
    . . . or, you could just be completely wrong.

    I'm going with option #2 on this one.
    "The only time I'm wrong is when I'm questioning myself."
    Haight

  3. #63
    meh Salomé's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,540

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    I hope now you see why a world missing any its essential personality types will falter and fail.
    But we could have men do those other things... Just no xNTJs plz. Because we all know they serve no useful purpose.

    (Of course, in a world full of INTP women they'd probably die out pretty quickly anyway... )
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  4. #64
    Doesn't Read Your Posts Haight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTj
    Posts
    6,243

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    (Of course, in a world full of INTP women they'd probably die out pretty quickly anyway... )
    Now that makes total sense.

    Although, you would do pretty well if you could secure all the sperm banks in the world. At least for a bit of time, anyway.

    I'd really like to be the last man standing in that world.
    "The only time I'm wrong is when I'm questioning myself."
    Haight

  5. #65
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,364

    Default

    I think the most interesting part of the original article was the suggestion (implicit, but there nonetheless, I think) that effeminacy in gay men - the quality that makes them feel as though it's more okay for them to touch women's bodies and blah blah blah, like "one of the girls" - is not natural. It's unconscious conforming to heterosexist categories in which it's recognized that because of the power imbalance between men and women, it is not okay for a straight male to in any way avail himself of a woman's body, but since a gay male is 'like a woman' in a sense, it is perfectly inoffensive for him to touch a woman's body like an equal.

    This makes sense on one level, but then on another it is questionable whether such a critique is in fact excessively gender conformist because it assumes that effeminacy in gay men is an affectation. Almost like, "just stop it, you're not a woman." Almost like the transphobia in certain sectors of the radfem community that @SmileyMan brought up earlier.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  6. #66
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 so/sx
    Posts
    2,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    I think the most interesting part of the original article was the suggestion (implicit, but there nonetheless, I think) that effeminacy in gay men - the quality that makes them feel as though it's more okay for them to touch women's bodies and blah blah blah, like "one of the girls" - is not natural. It's unconscious conforming to heterosexist categories in which it's recognized that because of the power imbalance between men and women, it is not okay for a straight male to in any way avail himself of a woman's body, but since a gay male is 'like a woman' in a sense, it is perfectly inoffensive for him to touch a woman's body like an equal.

    This makes sense on one level, but then on another it is questionable whether such a critique is in fact excessively gender conformist because it assumes that effeminacy in gay men is an affectation. Almost like, "just stop it, you're not a woman." Almost like the transphobia in certain sectors of the radfem community that @SmileyMan brought up earlier.
    I would think that in some gay men effeminacy is an affection. I mean that, I don't think "effeminacy" and being attracted to men are linked. Most of the gay men I'm friends with don't fit the idea of the flamboyant gay man. One is a super grungy, bearded "bear", one is a very preppy, corporate log cabin republican sort and another is a stuffy, jazz and cocktails asshole (actually enemies with that last one). but none of them are really effeminate to me. And I don't think any of them would Identify as "one of the girls".

    Since society has a sort of a stereotypical mold for what a gay man looks/acts/sounds like I would think that some guys out their feel like they have to imitate that to fit in. Just like some women feel they have to imitate certain ideas of femininity.


    I'm probably biased though. Most "feminine" traits ring false to me coming from women let alone men. It's probably that I "just don't get it".

  7. #67
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    SLI None
    Posts
    9,635

    Default

    anyone who feels someone up without their consent deserves a swift slap in the face. that said, I dislike the title of this thread. it makes it sound like all or most gay men do this.
    I don't see why gay men would even want to do it to begin with. personally, I barely even think about women at all, much less have the desire to feel them up without their permission. that said, there is something captivating to me about a genuinely graceful woman, but it's not sexual and it's definitely not an "I wanna grab your titties" kind of alluring. I think a lot of these "gay" men are just pretending to be gay in order to get closer to women and be able to do things to them they normally wouldn't be able to get away with
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
    ENFP
    5w4>1w9>2w1 Sx/Sp
    SEE-Fi
    Papa Bear
    Motivation: Dark Worker
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Chibi Seme
    MTG Color: black/red
    Male Archtype: King/Lover
    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  8. #68
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    9,130

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    Since society has a sort of a stereotypical mold for what a gay man looks/acts/sounds like I would think that some guys out their feel like they have to imitate that to fit in. Just like some women feel they have to imitate certain ideas of femininity.
    I think that is at the heart of the whole problem. A wise man once said:

    "Man, man himself, is an indefinable factor. He is, you might say, a sleek, malleable matter that is easily threaded through the eye of habit. He assumes all shapes, all forms you want to give him without yet ceasing to be man. Through this habituation you give his abilities, his nature and his original being a dimension that, at first, seemed impossible. And what is most peculiar: When the modulation is completed, he finds that this is his natural state, that it has always been thus and could not be otherwise; in short, the new state, he thinks, is simply grounded in his physical nature, stems from time immemorial."

  9. #69
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    isfp
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    8,595

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    I think it's safe to say that sexual impulses to intrude on someone's physical space non-consensually are coming from a different place than non-sexual ones, which may be affectionate, playful etc etc.

    Women are generally more tactile with friends than men are. Gay men are often tactile in similar ways to women with women. Thus it is more logical to interpret their behaviour as one might interpret a woman doing the same thing than to assume its about "male privilege" " male ownership" or "the patriarchy" (which latter has historically persecuted the LGBT community).
    I read the article and its comments more carefully, and there is a consistent problem with taking anecdotal evidence and conflating it into universal assumptions. The article opens with its informal "survey" of gay men who "all raised their hands" in response to the premise of the article. The opening bias on the part of the author is a problem since it is clear from comments here and there, and to one's common sense, that not every gay man is intruding on women's physical space.

    I never shared that assumption, especially because I've never seen it, but accepted that it happens based on anecdotes of women feeling bullied by it. I also committed the generalization fallacy, although I was not thinking in absolutes. I was trying to show that there is still a power imbalance between the genders, even though a lot of progress towards equality has been made. My point was to show that the power imbalance is significant enough to still have a wider influence of unconscious assumptions. I'm never involved in social groping, and so couldn't speak to that as well, even theoretically.

    In the article and comments people discuss anecdotes about how two demographics who lack certain rights and social powers interact to make each other feel bullied or oppressed, or even commit criminal violations. There were examples given of women committing criminal acts against gay men to show that gay men have less power than women. It was interesting to read someone else take the same approach as I did to make a point. I suspect there is a tendency to approach such issues with anecdote because it is responding to dismissal, so there is an attempt to be personally "heard", so saying "this is completely true of my world" can be conflated by self or others into an expression of universal truth. There is also a searching to see if personal experience is representative or more isolated.

    It is quite difficult to answer the underlying question in this topic: To what extent do males who are gay benefit from male privilege? This is a complex question without a single answer I suspect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    anyone who feels someone up without their consent deserves a swift slap in the face. that said, I dislike the title of this thread. it makes it sound like all or most gay men do this.
    I don't see why gay men would even want to do it to begin with. personally, I barely even think about women at all, much less have the desire to feel them up without their permission. that said, there is something captivating to me about a genuinely graceful woman, but it's not sexual and it's definitely not an "I wanna grab your titties" kind of alluring. I think a lot of these "gay" men are just pretending to be gay in order to get closer to women and be able to do things to them they normally wouldn't be able to get away with
    That is an interesting question. If some straight men were pretending to be gay to get closer to women, that would definitely explain why it felt intrusive. I do feel badly for the specific examples given where women felt bullied by gay men. I read their comments as saying that just because there isn't physical attraction, it doesn't mean they get a free excusal, which seems completely reasonable in those cases. The main problem is the generalizing, which the author's opening was quite blatant about doing.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  10. #70
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    isfp
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    8,595

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    ...
    Like I put a picture of Facebook to be funny where my head looked really big and said something about having hydrocephalism. The immediate response were like "no your so pretty" "your head is beautiful". I looked weird but I think people assumed I was fishing for compliments. I really thought it was funny to look strange. I've noticed at lost of women posting on each others walls "you look cute chica!" "Omg hair looks amazing"...
    You could prank people with this. It would be funny to talk earnestly about going on a new diet to lose weight and post Facebook pics doctored up to look slightly heavier each time - or something along those lines.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 35
    Last Post: 06-05-2015, 08:32 PM
  2. Brains of gay men similar to heterosexual women
    By NewEra in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 60
    Last Post: 08-19-2010, 02:03 PM
  3. How are you being treated by men and women of different age (and why?)
    By UnitOfPopulation in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 08-29-2009, 03:01 PM
  4. Men (and women!) of Mystery
    By cm08 in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-27-2009, 06:01 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO