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  1. #141
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isis View Post
    At this point- with the complete one-sided media and American and British government support ....... what is truth and what is false? We already know who is mightier? We've seen pictures. I have Palestinian friends. My mother was born in a refugee camp. My point of saying these things is- absolutely- condemnation to any Palestinian that wrongly hurts or kills another human being---Israeli or any other.

    But given the vast difference between the two in power and military might and the media strangulation and AIPAC lobby in the U.S., how can I begin to nit pick what an occupied population is doing in resistance to their situation??

    Unless any of us have lived behind a wall with white phosphorous bombs raining down on us. Unless any of us have had our homes demolished so that settlers can move in. Unless any one of us can say we are being oppressed by a neighboring country that is leaving us with hardly any water supply and in their own admission- "just above starving." Unless any of us have given birth at a check point or watch family members humiliated or killed just for being who we are ...... then I don't think we have much room to criticize.

    Why does no one are that UN resolutions are broken left and right? The Palestinians are living, breathing people. This is not a history book lesson. This is today in 2012. If you begin to believe the media that they are lesser human beings than yourself, then they won.

    If it is an even playing field ........... you can begin to criticize both sides. Right now- NOT an even playing field by any stretch of the imagination.

    It's easy for us to sit here and armchair quarterback the middle east. But I do happen to have an extra empathy gene it seems that most people! I feel for Palestine. And all oppressed people.
    See, you sound sensible here - you're much better when you calm down and explain yourself.

    I agree with almost all of this. I realise the suffering of the Palestinians is immense. The everyday humiliations are bad enough, let alone the stifled living conditions. I've been to Hebron in the West Bank and was shown around by a Palestinian on a political tour. The sorts of things I saw were pretty shocking and made me question the sanity of the Settlers - their general cruelty, selfishness and assholery is just astounding. What also amazed me is how no matter how much the Palestinians get knocked down and pushed around, they get up and do their best to get on with their lives. The manage to scratch out a sense of normalcy in such oppressive and uncertain conditions. The also manage to be kind, friendly and generous to others in the process, after all they've been through.
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  2. #142
    Member Isis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    See, you sound sensible here - you're much better when you calm down and explain yourself.

    I agree with almost all of this. I realise the suffering of the Palestinians is immense. The everyday humiliations are bad enough, let alone the stifled living conditions. I've been to Hebron in the West Bank and was shown around by a Palestinian on a political tour. The sorts of things I saw were pretty shocking and made me question the sanity of the Settlers - their general cruelty, selfishness and assholery is just astounding. What also amazed me is how no matter how much the Palestinians get knocked down and pushed around, they get up and do their best to get on with their lives. The manage to scratch out a sense of normalcy in such oppressive and uncertain conditions. The also manage to be kind, friendly and generous to others in the process, after all they've been through.
    THis also amazes me.
    In my personal spiritual beliefs .... I have reflected upon this. And I am starting to take on the belief that God has made them a little different than the rest of us. (And perhaps this applies to all who have ever been oppressed.) To withstand something that perhaps others cannot. I believe that God only give you what you can handle. Not sure I could handle what they do. But they do - and it's eerie at times. And their dignity comes before everything. It's amazing.

    Money and power don't mean anything to me. Except in the sense that I know you need money to survive in this world etc. And our world is dominated by who has power and $$. It is not dominated by who has character and moral substance more so. So in regards to occupied Palestinians- I revere them for their courage and stamina for living hell on earth.

    And looks like they will get their UN bid today without the US vote. I am a proud American- but not very proud of my government these days- and I'm glad this is a wake up call that just because we are the US does not mean we can and are allowed to control the entire damn planet.

  3. #143
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    What also amazed me is how no matter how much the Palestinians get knocked down and pushed around, they get up and do their best to get on with their lives. The manage to scratch out a sense of normalcy in such oppressive and uncertain conditions. The also manage to be kind, friendly and generous to others in the process, after all they've been through.
    That's the history of the Jews right there. Both sides could start by acknowledging their common concerns.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  4. #144
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    I wonder if the UN recognition of Palestinian statehood is going to have any meaning other than symbolic.
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  5. #145
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    yes, @SilkRoad:
    "The particular marker of sovereignty it sought from the U.N. is even more bureaucratic: Access to international organizations, especially the International Criminal Court at The Hague. Experts on international law say that, armed with the mass diplomatic recognition of the 150 or so nations it counts as supporters, Palestine will be in a position to bring cases against Israel, which has occupied the land defined as Palestine – the West Bank and the Gaza Strip – since 1967."
    http://world.time.com/2012/11/29/why...d=gs-main-lead

    Good to see that @SouthernKross is finally seeing the conflict as a matter of resistance to an aggressor rather than terrorism. Did the UN voting make you change your mind?
    Also: how embarassing for those 9 countries that voted against and the40something ones that abstained. Israel, The US, Canada, Australia, the UK, Germany, The Netherlands, Hungary, the Czech Republic....very embarassing.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    I wonder if the UN recognition of Palestinian statehood is going to have any meaning other than symbolic.

  6. #146
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkgraffiti View Post

    Good to see that @SouthernKross is finally seeing the conflict as a matter of resistance to an aggressor rather than terrorism. Did the UN voting make you change your mind?
    Also: how embarassing for those 9 countries that voted against and the40something ones that abstained. Israel, The US, Canada, Australia, the UK, Germany, The Netherlands, Hungary, the Czech Republic....very embarassing.
    I don't get the impression she "changed her mind", though she'd have to comment on that for herself. She never said that the Palestinians weren't suffering. She never said they were all terrorists and she isn't now saying they're all freedom fighters. The point all along was to not resort to the "one side is all good and one side is all bad" rhetoric that so many people on both sides do.

    I honestly don't understand why this is so incomprehensible to so many of you. Is it a lack of reading ability or is it just indoctrinated tunnel vision? Again, I'm talking about people who blindly support EITHER side and conclude that EITHER side is all good or all bad.

    Apparently even saying "governments and officials on both sides are a nasty lot, and a lot of innocent people are suffering" isn't considered acceptable because it suggests that one or two Israelis might also have had one or two unpleasant things happen to them... For so many people, it seems to be either "only Israelis suffer" or "only Palestinians suffer". Which is ridiculous. Unless you live in a 100% black and white world, I suppose.
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  7. #147
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    What the hell? That's not even important. Why do you take a minor thing from my post and make such a huge deal out of it? The important thing from my post was the answer to your question. Do you have reading comprehension problems?

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    I don't get the impression she "changed her mind", though she'd have to comment on that for herself. She never said that the Palestinians weren't suffering. She never said they were all terrorists and she isn't now saying they're all freedom fighters. The point all along was to not resort to the "one side is all good and one side is all bad" rhetoric that so many people on both sides do.

    I honestly don't understand why this is so incomprehensible to so many of you. Is it a lack of reading ability or is it just indoctrinated tunnel vision? Again, I'm talking about people who blindly support EITHER side and conclude that EITHER side is all good or all bad.

    Apparently even saying "governments and officials on both sides are a nasty lot, and a lot of innocent people are suffering" isn't considered acceptable because it suggests that one or two Israelis might also have had one or two unpleasant things happen to them... For so many people, it seems to be either "only Israelis suffer" or "only Palestinians suffer". Which is ridiculous. Unless you live in a 100% black and white world, I suppose.

  8. #148
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkgraffiti View Post
    What the hell? That's not even important. Why do you take a minor thing from my post and make such a huge deal out of it? The important thing from my post was the answer to your question. Do you have reading comprehension problems?
    Not important? Really? Given the way the thread has gone, I thought it was pretty pertinent.

    And no, I don't have reading comprehension problems, cheers. Although given how you've interpreted SouthernKross's comments I think you may. I'd be interested to know at what point you think she "changed her mind."

    This is an interesting article. The poet whose blog it is posted on is pro-Palestinian, btw. http://www.pierrejoris.com/blog/?p=9392
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  9. #149
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isis View Post
    THis also amazes me.
    In my personal spiritual beliefs .... I have reflected upon this. And I am starting to take on the belief that God has made them a little different than the rest of us. (And perhaps this applies to all who have ever been oppressed.) To withstand something that perhaps others cannot. I believe that God only give you what you can handle. Not sure I could handle what they do. But they do - and it's eerie at times. And their dignity comes before everything. It's amazing.

    Money and power don't mean anything to me. Except in the sense that I know you need money to survive in this world etc. And our world is dominated by who has power and $$. It is not dominated by who has character and moral substance more so. So in regards to occupied Palestinians- I revere them for their courage and stamina for living hell on earth.

    And looks like they will get their UN bid today without the US vote. I am a proud American- but not very proud of my government these days- and I'm glad this is a wake up call that just because we are the US does not mean we can and are allowed to control the entire damn planet.
    You're crazier than I thought.

  10. #150
    Member Isis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    You're crazier than I thought.
    I love it when people call me names.

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