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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    strings free money

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    The EU wasnt meant to be about integration or homogenisation, it was about peace, in that respect it worked very well there's not been any fighting in Europe and most of the big wars in human history, including the world wars, have been Eurocentric or legacies of the same.
    I already addressed this argument in the EU Nobel Peace Prize thread. Even after WWII, Europe was still the epicenter of the Cold War, and there were a few close calls. One of the more famous ones that happened on the streets of Berlin:

  3. #13
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I've lately witnessed that war reports from Afghanistan have increased drastically in the german news. Given the fact that the usual news show like one war report of german soldiers in a month since 1945, I can confirm a significant increase.

    Then another news was that the german industry exports werent so good in the last quarter of 2012. Largely due to the problems in southern Europe.

    And last but not least, another news was that America, facing its structural deficit, will prolly retreat more and more from the role as world police.

    ---
    If you put that all together you get a good idea for the upcoming plans of german industrialists after the EU.... And I doubt they wont find a way to survive even without the EU. What I actually find more frightening than it being vice versa.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I've lately witnessed that war reports from Afghanistan have increased drastically in the german news. Given the fact that the usual news show like one war report of german soldiers in a month since 1945, I can confirm a significant increase.

    Then another news was that the german industry exports werent so good in the last quarter of 2012. Largely due to the problems in southern Europe.

    And last but not least, another news was that America, facing its structural deficit, will prolly retreat more and more from the role as world police.

    ---
    If you put that all together you get a good idea for the upcoming plans of german industrialists after the EU.... And I doubt they wont find a way to survive even without the EU. What I actually find more frightening than it being vice versa.
    That sounds conspiratorial, I dont think there's going to be a German Military-Industrial complex, there's no cultural platform for it and Germans are not going to let military spending and foreign policy account for tax money the way that the US electorate does.

    Neither of those countries have the same history with reference to militarism, I'm betting that Germans are a lot less favourable to the idea than any Americans are.

  5. #15
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    The EU wasnt meant to be about integration or homogenisation, it was about peace, in that respect it worked very well there's not been any fighting in Europe and most of the big wars in human history, including the world wars, have been Eurocentric or legacies of the same.
    Peace was the original goal behind the creation of the institutions which later grew into the EU, but economic integration later became the primary concern, at least among the original Western European member-states (so said all of my textbooks, anyway, its not like I lived there). Securing peace and exporting human rights norms was a major factor in the later admittance of post-Communist states, however.

  6. #16
    Senior Member tkae.'s Avatar
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    It'll never happen. Each European nation has too much culture behind them to be able to unify. You have too broad a range of government styles, too broad a range of economic policies, too broad a range of histories, and too broad a range of individual interests. What America has that Europe can't have is a fresh history where our states were before their own histories. We sat down and charted out the borders for each state as territories, and their economies and cultures have developed since that point. They've developed as states of a larger nation, not as nations in and of themselves (except for Texas and Hawaii, but look at how that's been working out ).

    It could never be possible for a driving majority of citizens in each of the countries to believe in putting their own nationality and culture behind them in order to form a unified European nation. If anything, the political trajectory for Europe is one of dissolution and probable war. If not a World War, then a continental war, at the very least an intricate series of border clashes and rolling alliances.
    "Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away." -Ekaku Hakuin
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    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I think the EU could politically resist emerging powers just fine, they have already and those powers are pretty emerged by now. The EU itself is a kind of emergent power, twice what would have been major game changes in the international balance of power and economic power especially have been buried by US wars or UK economic warfare. Even at that the EU resisted geopolitical pressure to become the keynesian spender capable of producing the global kick, doesnt anyone remember the US and UK engaging in lots of finger waving at Germany? Finally the US made the decision to under right new building in the economy.

    I think the real question is whether or not the EU will become a military power, the US republicans have already put pressure on to try and bring that about, its not happened and that's major because without the pressures which a military-industrial complex and enabler foreign policy bring its possible to have a social market economy, full employment policies and many of the other things which makes the EU very different from the Anglo-Saxon capitalist world.
    I worry that with Russia right next door it might try to increase economic ties to e europe and countries like poland to keep them from joining/signing up and that those regions will stay .. not destabalized, but vulnerable and impoverished
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  8. #18
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    That sounds conspiratorial, I dont think there's going to be a German Military-Industrial complex, there's no cultural platform for it and Germans are not going to let military spending and foreign policy account for tax money the way that the US electorate does.

    Neither of those countries have the same history with reference to militarism, I'm betting that Germans are a lot less favourable to the idea than any Americans are.
    I hope so too, I am just sceptic about peoples good intentions when it comes down to earning money. Yesterday on that defense ministry conference of the EU, France asked when they are allowed to sell weapons to syrian rebels. I dont think they solely asked that because they are concerned about Syria. :/
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

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    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    I'd like all states and nations to be relatively united. Enough to avoid war.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    That sounds conspiratorial, I dont think there's going to be a German Military-Industrial complex, there's no cultural platform for it and Germans are not going to let military spending and foreign policy account for tax money the way that the US electorate does.

    Neither of those countries have the same history with reference to militarism, I'm betting that Germans are a lot less favourable to the idea than any Americans are.
    I'm sure you know much better than the guy from Germany about the history of his country, their culture, and the zeitgeist - as it were - in that country right now, Mr.Lark. Nothing to worry about then, good times!

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