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Thread: Gun Control

  1. #51
    Wonderer Samuel De Mazarin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millerm277 View Post
    Really? I disagree, there are many other countries where citizens have large numbers of guns (not even counting Africa/Middle East), in switzerland, every adult male is REQUIRED to have a selective fire rifle (lets you switch between semi-auto, and other modes such as burst and full-auto) and a semiautomatic handgun, in their homes. Yet, switzerland has one of the lowest crime rates in the world.

    America has always had a high(ish) crime rate compared to other countries, I don't think gun laws have much to do with it, and I don't think changing those laws would effect the crime rate in a significant positive way.
    The American "community" is so different from the Swiss community it's not even worth bringing up their gun laws. Their central government is weak, which America can't afford, and politics is dominated by small regional councils. Also, the country's not even close to the same order of magnitude in size to the United States. Military training is mandatory there... these are very different countries with very different kinds of demographic interactions and social structures... it works there... it's clearly not working in the U.S.

    I don't know why you brought up Africa and the Middle East (West Asia)... those places are full of gun (and bomb)-related violence.
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  2. #52
    / booyalab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel De Mazarin View Post
    it's clearly not working in the U.S.
    Gun rights don't work in the U.S.? That theory's not so clear to everyone else, please back it up.
    I don't wanna!

  3. #53
    / booyalab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    Crime rates in the UK are markedly lower than the US.
    murder and rape are lower, pretty much everything else is higher. Though your murder rate was lower before the gun ban.
    If you want to compare capital cities, try comparing London with Washington, hmm?
    Good point. Let's see.....
    gun ban, London- check.
    gun ban, Washington D.C- check.
    drastic increase in London crime since ban- check
    drastic ( and disproportionately to rest of US) increase in D.C. since ban- check
    that's wonderful, but the overall rates I mentioned are still higher since the ban was enacted.
    The murder rate in the US is still 3 times the UK one. So I know where I feel safer!
    I'm not trying to strike fear in you, but that's like saying you feel safe playing in the street because at least it's not next to any volcanoes.
    It seems as if the overall crime rate is pretty average in the US, but homicides are higher - which to me implies that guns just mean that when something happens the stakes are raised by guns - perhaps because the rate of "muggings" in the UK are recorded as "murders (self defense or otherwise)" in the US because they get escalated.
    So I take it you think criminals are incapable or unwilling to weigh the costs of the crime they're about to commit? The prospect of guns just makes it more exciting!
    "Where there is a marked disparity between the incidence of crime in the US and all other comparable developed countries is in the per capita rate of murder commited with firearms. The most recent data show that the proportion of Americans killed by firearms is more than three and a half times greater than the next country of comparable development (Portugal.) The proportion of Americans killed by firearms per year is more than seven and a half times greater than the comparable proportion of residents in the 10 developed countries with the next highest rates of firearm homicides."

    (Stats are from the UN via wikipedia)
    yeah, the US has a high murder rate. And what are you proposing exactly? You think we should turn the entire country into Washington D.C.? Thanks anyway, but I like the relatively safe midwest as it is.
    I don't wanna!

  4. #54
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millerm277 View Post
    The US goverment estimates that there are about 223 MILLION guns in private hands in the United States. Those numbers alone should tell you that regardless of the laws, guns will not be going away anytime soon. In my opinion, opening up conceal and carry laws will reduce crime. (Legalizing drugs would have the most effect of anything, but that won't be happening, and is a different discussion). There are no criminals who have trouble finding/getting guns, making it more difficult for the normal citizens doesn't help anything.
    And that's why a gun ban in the US would be a disaster. The cat is already out of the bag. They're widely available, both legally and illegally. Unless the US government can figure out some way to magically make all the guns disappear, any sort of ban would be a colossal failure.

  5. #55
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by booyalab View Post
    yeah, the US has a high murder rate. And what are you proposing exactly? You think we should turn the entire country into Washington D.C.? Thanks anyway, but I like the relatively safe midwest as it is.
    Nice strawman. Problem is, I never said I was pro-gun control in the US. On the contrary, I think it's too late... there are too many guns out there to fix the problem by an attempted ban. As another poster said.. hundreds of millions of guns. You guys are stuck with your horrendous murder and homicide problem...so, you can keep your midwest

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