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Thread: Gun Control

  1. #31
    Wonderer Samuel De Mazarin's Avatar
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    Just wanted to throw this in here... from the Political Compass Test thread, when I became responsible for raising gun control issues...

    My question concerning why private gun ownership still exists was rhetorical... I'm fully aware of the 2nd Amendment. I'm one of those infernal free-thinkers who thinks that private gun ownership has done far more harm than good in this country.

    Look how much guns helped in Waco, Texas. In an age of mass media and an ever-growing bureaucracy, I would wager that there are far better ways of revolting against the government in this technocratic age than by getting thousands of innocent people killed in gun fights. Hacking into government computers is a more intelligent and effective way of disrupting totalitarian regimes than by firing rocket launchers. India was freed from the British and America purged (largely) of its legislated racism through nonviolent means.
    So, I essentially side-step a lot of statistical arguments about whether or not gun ownership has increased, decreased, or done nothing to crime rates., though I intuit gun control helps people get killed more... period. will look at stats later.
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  2. #32
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Default Not One Gun Massacre Since Guns Were Banned Over a Whole Continent

    We have banned guns over a whole Continent with the result we have had not one gun massacre since guns were banned. While we constantly read in the newspapers of gun massacres there, particularly of school children.

    And to boot, the banning of guns was the single most popular decision by our Prime Minister.

  3. #33
    The Unwieldy Clawed One Falcarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by booyalab View Post
    Apparently gun crimes doubled since the ban, your chances of being mugged in London are 6 times greater than in New York, and England's rates of assault, robbery, and burglary are way higher than in America. You're also 4 times more likely to be robbed at home in the UK than in the US, where burglars actually admit to fearing armed homeowners more than the police.
    Are you honestly trying to tell me that you would rather be deprived of your life than your handbag?

    I don't know about you, but I would much rather be a victim of assault, robbery, and burglary rather than murder, rape and sexual assault. You women need to get your priorities sorted.:rolleyes2:
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassa View Post
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  4. #34
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by booyalab View Post
    Well maybe he's a marathon runner, who knows. But I think knife safety would be the least of one's worries over there, anyway. Apparently gun crimes doubled since the ban, your chances of being mugged in London are 6 times greater than in New York, and England's rates of assault, robbery, and burglary are way higher than in America. You're also 4 times more likely to be robbed at home in the UK than in the US, where burglars actually admit to fearing armed homeowners more than the police.
    Have you considered a job as a Misinformation Minister?

    Crime rates in the UK are markedly lower than the US. Gun crime has risen, while overall crime has fallen. Don't forget, we've had a massive influx in recent years from Eastern Europe (Poland particularly). It's at a material rate.

    If you want to compare capital cities, try comparing London with Washington, hmm?

    Oh, some useful and balanced reading on London crime rates here :

    BBC NEWS | England | London | Gun crime rise bucks overall drop

    I am, by the way, greatly impressed with how New York has cleaned up its act.. if only other major US cities could do the same?

    The murder rate in the US is still 3 times the UK one. So I know where I feel safer!

    It seems as if the overall crime rate is pretty average in the US, but homicides are higher - which to me implies that guns just mean that when something happens the stakes are raised by guns - perhaps because the rate of "muggings" in the UK are recorded as "murders (self defense or otherwise)" in the US because they get escalated.

    There is some further interesting reading here :

    Crime in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Extract follows :

    "Where there is a marked disparity between the incidence of crime in the US and all other comparable developed countries is in the per capita rate of murder commited with firearms. The most recent data show that the proportion of Americans killed by firearms is more than three and a half times greater than the next country of comparable development (Portugal.) The proportion of Americans killed by firearms per year is more than seven and a half times greater than the comparable proportion of residents in the 10 developed countries with the next highest rates of firearm homicides."

    (Stats are from the UN via wikipedia)

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcarius View Post

    I don't know about you, but I would much rather be a victim of assault, robbery, and burglary rather than murder, rape and sexual assault. You women need to get your priorities sorted.:rolleyes2:
    What do legal guns have to do with those crimes?

  6. #36
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    What do legal guns have to do with those crimes?
    Ask the families of the policemen in the US shot by their own weapons or by those of colleagues?

  7. #37
    Senior Member WobblyStilettos's Avatar
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    Ugh. Guns. Horriblehorriblehorrible. No one should be allowed to have them. They should cease to exist. They are evil and ugly and seeing one makes me literally feel ill. As I'm sure you can tell, I'm very open-minded on this topic
    Where you used to be, there is a hole in the world, which I find myself constantly walking around in the daytime, and falling into at night. I miss you like hell. ~Edna St. Vincent Millay

  8. #38
    Senior Membrane spirilis's Avatar
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    I grew up with a dad who's a lifetime NRA member and I've handled/used them before, both in boy scouts (a .22) and for fun (on a firing range--couple different sizes, all much larger than .22 ).

    Obviously they are extremely dangerous instruments that should never find themselves in the hands of those who are unstable or too immature to recognize their risk. However I can't imagine banning them completely, because they are handy in cases where extreme force is necessary to avoid further casualties--such as police work. I guess the question of whether police should carry guns is a topic for a whole different thread, but I believe they should.

    I believe average citizens should have the right to bear arms, but not until they've passed a ridiculously elaborate safety AND psychological examination. And only then, this right to bear arms doesn't have much utility except freak situations (ie someone else criminally assaulting you or your family, or post-apocalyptic scenarios where you're without food and need to kill some animals.)

  9. #39
    The Unwieldy Clawed One Falcarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    What do legal guns have to do with those crimes?
    If it were the President of the United States he would most likely say 'It's the security and protection, stupid'.

    My point is if someone is hell bent on killing one there is not much one can do about it, so what is the point of having guns?

    At the very best a gun is a double edged weapon; They do are not make very good protection just ask Abraham Lincoln, James Garfield, William McKinley and John F. Kennedy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassa View Post
    Oh our 3rd person reference to ourselves denotes nothing more than we realize we are epic characters on the forum.

    Narcissism, plain and simple.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    Would the laws of physics be different in your world? Because a gun is effective for the same reason a knife or a bow n arrow are effective - force applied over a small surface area. Point being someone would think of it eventually
    I guess they would be. I'm allowed to dream right?
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