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  1. #641
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I really shouldn't be surprised.

    I think a lot of American racists have roots in the same Anglican jerks in Northern Ireland.
    You're sort of right. It's the Presbyterian jerks in Northern Ireland who became the American rednecks.

  2. #642
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Rand Paul On The War Path
    Once dismissed by the GOP establishment as a gadfly, Paul is starting to look a lot like the leader of his party — and his enemies are panicking. “There’s a big transition in the Republican Party,” the Kentucky senator says in a BuzzFeed interview.




    As a Christian this is what most draws me to Paul:

    Paul also finds plenty to dislike in his own party’s approach to beating the war drum — particularly the theological overtones of the Bush years. In a strikingly candid speech last year at the Value Voters Summit, Paul, a Presbyterian, cited his religious beliefs while declaring, “I’m not a pacifist. But I do think it unacceptable not to hate war.”
    He elaborated to BuzzFeed: “I think some within the Christian community are such great defenders of the promised land and the chosen people that they think war is always the answer, maybe even preemptive war. And I think it’s hard to square the idea of a preemptive war and, to me, that overeagerness [to go to] war, with Christianity.”
    And as a fan of political rhetorIc and gamesmanship I can't ignore this:

    In the world of politics, though, Paul seems preternaturally comfortable at war. One particularly instructive example is his feud with New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie. Earlier this summer, Christie accused the libertarian of prioritizing “esoteric, intellectual debates” over national security — a harsh attack that seemed to come out of nowhere. Though Paul didn’t instigate the spat, he happily stretched it out over several days, answering every interviewer’s question about his aggressor, and memorably referring to the governor at one point as “the king of bacon.” The fight fizzled when Paul invited Christie for a beer (he declined), but he has never quite let it go.
    When BuzzFeed asked him this week whether he was surprised Christie didn’t engage the Syria debate more directly by staking out a position, Paul paused for a beat before offering a cutting response.

    “I guess I didn’t really notice or think about it that much,” he said.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/mckaycoppins...n-the-war-path
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  3. #643
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Another winner over the past few weeks has been Rep. Justin Amash.

    Through an exhaustive schedule of town hall meetings — 11 during one two-day stretch— TV show appearances and a continual stream of Twitter posts, Amash has pushed back at President Obama and his own party's leadership for proposing limited airstrikes in Syria.
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...nti-war-voice/






    Paul/Amash 2016?
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  4. #644
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Given that Americans going to repeatedly elect the GOP no matter how well the alternative is performing as an, at least fiscally, conservative party I sort of read about the possible ascendent forces with complete dread Beorn.

    I am glad that there are less "christians" believing that their religion mandates war or uncritical support for Israel, I'm not anti-semitic but even neutrality towards Israel will result in accusations of anti-semitism these days.

    Although I have to say that the forward march of libertarianism totally and utterly horrifies me.

  5. #645
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Given that Americans going to repeatedly elect the GOP no matter how well the alternative is performing as an, at least fiscally, conservative party I sort of read about the possible ascendent forces with complete dread Beorn.

    I am glad that there are less "christians" believing that their religion mandates war or uncritical support for Israel, I'm not anti-semitic but even neutrality towards Israel will result in accusations of anti-semitism these days.

    Although I have to say that the forward march of libertarianism totally and utterly horrifies me.



    If it became authoritarian libertarianism I would have a problem, but I don't think that's going to happen.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  6. #646
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post



    If it became authoritarian libertarianism I would have a problem, but I don't think that's going to happen.
    I dont believe it could be anything otherwise, most libertarians I know are precisely so for fiscal reasons, being rich hasnt brought them totalitarian powers, yet, and they hate the poor and want to make them poorer

  7. #647
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Rand Paul On The War Path
    Once dismissed by the GOP establishment as a gadfly, Paul is starting to look a lot like the leader of his party — and his enemies are panicking. “There’s a big transition in the Republican Party,” the Kentucky senator says in a BuzzFeed interview.




    As a Christian this is what most draws me to Paul:



    And as a fan of political rhetorIc and gamesmanship I can't ignore this:




    http://www.buzzfeed.com/mckaycoppins...n-the-war-path
    I've been harping on Libertarian Populism for a while now. We're still at the very front edge of any kind of GOP policy shift, but with the way the Syria debate went, and the defeat of the GOP hawks by the libertarian wing signals big things coming.

    The next battle will be on the social front, and will probably take much longer to get through.

  8. #648
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    That picture gives the perfect aura of satanism.

  9. #649
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    I believe Libertarian concepts of leaving people alone involve disabling the government in a way that prevents it from potentially bothering anyone, which happens to also include removing its ability to establish a social safety net, provide education, build infrastructure, etc...

    Neglect is abuse. The libertarian government is a neglectful one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    If it became authoritarian libertarianism I would have a problem, but I don't think that's going to happen.
    The thing is, libertarianism does not have to be authoritarian in any way to be a big help to authoritarians. The simplest way I can put this is that libertarians refuse to acknowledge (and therefore take action against) the natural aggregation of power, but their ideas about individual liberties means they are offended by any government policy that would be geared toward combating the aggregation of power. Authoritarians, however, naturally thrive on that tendency toward the aggregation of power. So, libertarians are generally unwitting assistants to authoritarians, far more so than they are people capable of achieving their own mission (which is hopeless).
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  10. #650
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    Mike Lee's recent family oriented Tax Proposal is looking quite good. @Beorn @lowtech redneck @Zarathustra

    Mike Lee’s Tax Reform Rewards Families and Reaps Praise

    Mike Lee talked taxes at AEI yesterday, and the rave reviews are in.

    Dubbed by this magazine “The Senate’s Mr. Tea,” Mike Lee hasn’t lost any of his firebrand zeal, as his spearheading of the “Defund Obamacare” campaign evidences. However, he is pairing his Tea Partyism with a communitarian messaging of late, culminating in a family-friendly tax reform plan that goes as far as any politician’s proposal, and certainly any Republican one, of late to put the needs and well-being of working families ahead of the wealthy and well-connected.

    As Jim Pethokoukis describes it, ”Senator Mike Lee of Utah is offering fellow Republicans a possible path out of the political and policy wilderness.”

    At its core: a new $2500 per child tax credit — in addition to the existing $1000 credit — available to all parents of dependent children and applicable to both payroll and income taxes. The expanded tax break would help reduce the “parent tax penalty.” Parents contribute twice to senior social insurance programs; first when they pay payroll taxes, then again when they incur the cost of raising the next generation of taxpayers, their kiddies. …

    In a way, Lee is proposing a “human capital” gains tax cut. … In addition, Lee would reduce the current seven individual income tax brackets to two with 15% and 35%.
    Yuval Levin also finds Lee’s proposal more than sound (it is based in large part on an article published in the second issue of Levin’s own magazine, National Affairs):

    The combination of reforms Lee proposes is, to begin with, good policy. It would make our tax code friendlier to growth and more supportive of prosperity, and would correct a number of iniquities in the current code, in the process easing for many the path into the middle class and upwards through it and beyond it. It’s also good politics, as offering a larger child credit would help build a broader constituency for the other tax reforms (which conservatives have long wanted) while at the same time enabling the right to show working-class families how conservatives policies can improve their lives.
    Most of all, though, Levin celebrates the positive signal that this speech represents, for “to see a prominent conservative politician take up the cause and offer the sort of vision of it that Lee did in his remarks today, is a cause for great encouragement and hope. … Encouraging signs are few and far between these days, but this was a big one.”

    Tim Carney over at the Washington Examiner gives Mike Lee’s plan the official libertarian populist blessing, and commends it for its framing and policy:


    First, Lee’s plan isn’t a flat tax. He calls for a 15 percent rate and 35 percent rate. He puts much more emphasis on making the tax code clean and simple – eliminating deductions, streamlining returns – than on flatness. This tacitly accepts the notion of a progressive income tax code. He’s agreeing that the rich ought to pay a higher portion.

    Along the same lines, Lee’s tax plan would cap the mortgage interest deduction at $300,000. Most homeowners would see no difference, but lobbyists living in Northwest Washington and Chevy Chase would see their deductions shrink.

    Most importantly, Lee rejects the notion, persistent among some conservatives, that there’s something bad about knocking low-income families off the tax rolls. The centerpiece of Lee’s bill is an expanded child tax credit that would not only reduce income taxes to zero, but also offset payroll taxes.

    In doing so, he explicitly rejects Romney 47-percentism: “Working families are not free riders.” …

    Remember, this sort of talk isn’t coming from the squishy center, but from the Red Meat Right – from Utah, to be precise. And it could represent a much-needed libertarian-populist wave in the GOP because it comes from the same well from which the Tea Party sprung.
    The pro-family sociologist W. Bradford Wilcox weighed in immediately following the speech in a follow-up panel, then continued his remarks over at The Atlantic

    Senator Lee’s proposal is only one step in the right direction. But what’s particularly encouraging about his proposal is that it would lift the sagging economic fortunes of many working-class families by targeting their payroll taxes. Let’s hope more Republicans (and Democrats) take a page from Lee’s playbook and seek policies that renew the flagging economic fortunes of family life in all too many of our nation’s poor and working class communities.
    Last, but furthest from least, Pete Spiliakos is over the moon:

    I can’t say enough good things about this speech on family-friendly tax reform by Utah Senator Mike Lee. It is a beautifully written argument for a Republican tax agenda that prioritizes the interests of middle-class and struggling working parents. Lee’s speech also contains some powerful but very civil criticisms of the ideas underlying Romney’s 47% comment and Rand Paul’s flat tax proposal. Lee’s identity as an insurgent, constitutionalist, Tea Partier allows him to position middle-class-oriented populism as authentically conservative. This is a huge step toward making the GOP a more middle-class-friendly party.
    There are a few features of the speech that stand out for special notice. One is Lee’s willingness to put payroll taxes on par with income taxes. Because income taxes are disproportionately paid by the well-off, and payroll taxes disproportionately by the working-class, payroll taxes have been ignored by the Republican Party. Getting a sitting Senator to recognize their importance is itself a great achievement. Another is Lee’s push back against the flat tax and consumption tax crowd, prioritizing families (despite his verbal acrobatics) and representing a real departure from traditional strains of economic and libertarian thinking about tax policy.

    Finally, this is a tax plan that makes philosophical concessions to the world as it is, not as it might be in an economics text book. As Tim says, it tacitly accepts a progressive tax code, and accepts that the rich should pay more. Also, its core justification recognizes the future survival of the welfare state and adjusts families’ taxes to better reward them for contributing to its solvency and society’s well being. This is no mean thing.

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