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  1. #621
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I think we can be required to have ID in order to vote and it makes sense, did you see the bit in gangs of new york when they rounded up voters to get the result they wanted and had all the ones which had beards shaved in order to vote a second time? It just makes sense.

    There's jokes about people voting from beyond the grave here and I'm sure it happens, I even heard about some parties visiting demented elderly people in retirement homes or their relatives to secure those living there's postal ballots.

    I've no clue about what this is specifically in question BTW I just came in to say it was interesting that there's no one debating the future of the demcratic party.
    The case in question is southern states keep going to the Supreme Court to repeal laws set about in the Votings Right Act (Civil Rights era laws) that arranged districts to be more friendly to African Americans.

    The basic argument is that we've all moved past that now, but I don't think they'll ever move past it. Like I said, unfinished business. Sherman should have wiped out every redneck, and the Union should have carpetbagged the south with their own principles. Instead they decided to let up, and ended up perpetuating a whole region of racist idiots.

    I said I was evil in another thread. I think I am. In the deepest recesses, I might be. I'm willing to be, for the sake of changing a landscape that's much better than either I or these rednecks deserve.

  2. #622
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    The case in question is southern states keep going to the Supreme Court to repeal laws set about in the Votings Right Act (Civil Rights era laws) that arranged districts to be more friendly to African Americans.

    The basic argument is that we've all moved past that now, but I don't think they'll ever move past it. Like I said, unfinished business. Sherman should have wiped out every redneck, and the Union should have carpetbagged the south with their own principles. Instead they decided to let up, and ended up perpetuating a whole region of racist idiots.

    I said I was evil in another thread. I think I am. In the deepest recesses, I might be. I'm willing to be, for the sake of changing a landscape that's much better than either I or these rednecks deserve.
    So the problem was that they didn't commit genocide? Wtf
    Take the weakest thing in you
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  3. #623
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    So the problem was that they didn't commit genocide? Wtf
    The only thing I can hope for is interracial marriages over time. Maybe that'll happen. In lieu of that, yes, genocide is the proper course of action.

    Honestly, I'm sick of that shit. I don't know what else to say. I'm not going to hide it and be falsely virtuous or accepting.

  4. #624
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    The alternative I see is the north leaving the south alone and then over the next 100 years southern blacks working to free themselves rather than having the white man do it for them and patronizing them even into the present. If that had happened you wouldn't have had the fleeing of southern blacks to northern cities and right now you might actually have a CSA that is actually a free African-American run country with white bigots in the minority not unlike South Africa (though South Africa has it's own problems).
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  5. #625
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    The case in question is southern states keep going to the Supreme Court to repeal laws set about in the Votings Right Act (Civil Rights era laws) that arranged districts to be more friendly to African Americans.

    The basic argument is that we've all moved past that now, but I don't think they'll ever move past it. Like I said, unfinished business. Sherman should have wiped out every redneck, and the Union should have carpetbagged the south with their own principles. Instead they decided to let up, and ended up perpetuating a whole region of racist idiots.

    I said I was evil in another thread. I think I am. In the deepest recesses, I might be. I'm willing to be, for the sake of changing a landscape that's much better than either I or these rednecks deserve.
    Have you read Bring The Jubilee? Its an alternative history of the world in which the confederates won, a pretty good one, in which the northern states crippled by war reparations and carpet baggers as the south were become the racist and segregated states.

    Its fictional and perhaps is putting a simple spin on things but its a good point I think none the less.

  6. #626
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    The only thing I can hope for is interracial marriages over time. Maybe that'll happen. In lieu of that, yes, genocide is the proper course of action.

    Honestly, I'm sick of that shit. I don't know what else to say. I'm not going to hide it and be falsely virtuous or accepting.
    Hmm, I could have seen a time that white racists would have said the same thing, some still do suggesting that no ethnically unmixed african rises beyond the sorts of levels of intellect and culture that are common among those who carried out the massacres in Rwanda or who live in mud huts and shanty towns.

  7. #627
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    The alternative I see is the north leaving the south alone and then over the next 100 years southern blacks working to free themselves rather than having the white man do it for them and patronizing them even into the present. If that had happened you wouldn't have had the fleeing of southern blacks to northern cities and right now you might actually have a CSA that is actually a free African-American run country with white bigots in the minority not unlike South Africa (though South Africa has it's own problems).
    I definitely dont think that the US would have survived divided into two seperate national coalitions sharing the same territory, war between them would have been inevitable in some shape or form and if not a fighting war then certainly an esponiage and economic war, in fact I personally believe that if that reality had come to pass the splitting of the union and the confederacy into nation states vulnerable to the predations of larger imperial powers would have been most likely.

    The "Americas" could have been the geographic land mass the imperial powers fought their wars on, much as proxy battles have been fought in Africa and the middle east more recently and as the wars fought to determine the future of the UK were reserved for Ireland or Scottish battlefields.

    As for the fate of the slaves, I believe the institution would have been keep and possible preserved much better than elsewhere, possibly lasting into the present day but I doubt the confederacy would've developed much beyond an agrarian nation and probably could have resembled apartheid africa. There was much in common between the philosophy of the Afrikaneers and the confederacy from what I've read.

  8. #628
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Hmm, I could have seen a time that white racists would have said the same thing, some still do suggesting that no ethnically unmixed african rises beyond the sorts of levels of intellect and culture that are common among those who carried out the massacres in Rwanda or who live in mud huts and shanty towns.
    Well, if they rose in intellect and culture, they wouldn't be racist to begin with. I would prefer they do that.

    I don't think it's a good idea to just wait around for them do this though. While it's a nice sentiment, I don't have that much faith in humanity (which is why I think libertarianism in general is flawed as well). I have faith in order and the best exemplar's of human philosophy. Since not everyone has time for these people to come around, you need to make laws that control them. But if law breaks down and is completely dismissed, this is when I advocate the stuff I said above. That's basically a war environment. And in that case, I refer back to Sherman again. "War is cruelty. There is no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over."

    I guess I'm saying "Magneto" is the good guy in the "X-Men" stories. Who doesn't want to be more like Prof. X? Even Magneto does, but it's not that simple.

  9. #629
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Well, if they rose in intellect and culture, they wouldn't be racist to begin with. I would prefer they do that.

    I don't think it's a good idea to just wait around for them do this though. While it's a nice sentiment, I don't have that much faith in humanity (which is why I think libertarianism in general is flawed as well). I have faith in order and the best exemplar's of human philosophy. Since not everyone has time for these people to come around, you need to make laws that control them. But if law breaks down and is completely dismissed, this is when I advocate the stuff I said above. That's basically a war environment. And in that case, I refer back to Sherman again. "War is cruelty. There is no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over."

    I guess I'm saying "Magneto" is the good guy in the "X-Men" stories. Who doesn't want to be more like Prof. X? Even Magneto does, but it's not that simple.
    I dont agree with libertarianism because like capitalism and economics before it its just an ideological rationalisation which suits the ruling classes, its interpreted, usually, as a thinly disguised might makes right and devil take the hind most and its all fine because its nastier consequences will be a result of actors and contexts other than government or the state, never mind that they'll be the exact same as if they were. Its not a world without problems its just their privatisation. Great news for crooks, crooked politicians and robber barons though. Much more Al Capone than Adam Smith in reality.

    Waiting for people to catch up or recognise the virtue of, well, virtue, in culture or intellect, isnt going to work, there'll be a sufficient number of them together who'll not get it and they'll support one another in attacking the minority who do, it'll lead to the positive repression and suppress of what culture and intellect that does exist. Especially when the funds run out to pay one have to the philistines to police or kill the other half when they transgress.

  10. #630
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Especially when the funds run out to pay one have to the philistines to police or kill the other half when they transgress.
    Can you rephrase this? I know what you mean by philistines, but it seems like the sentence is missing something.

    On another note, I'm not surprised that an Irishman understands minority issues in the US.

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