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  1. #51

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    How come Republicans no longer talk about Bobby Jindal as an up-and-comer? For a Republican, he has liberal views on health care, even if his views on women's issues and intelligent design are solidly in the more conservative wing of the party. He's also not white, which would seem to help moving forward.
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    I was hoping you'd be more explicit strategy-wise, but I see where your head is. What you've said here fits in pretty nicely with my initial post in the thread, actually.

    Susana Martinez is exciting to me. I feel she'd have a better chance of capturing the Latino vote than Rubio would.
    Rubio is the greatest talent we've got.

    And the greatest public speaker I've had the privilege of seeing live.

    He came in in 2010, and like everyone who came in that class, had to play to those voters.

    With the defeat in 2012, he will have much more leeway to act in a bipartisan manner.

    Which he has a lot of experience with given that he was the speaker of the Florida State House prior to becoming Senator.

    Florida loves him, and that will continue to be important nationally.

    I'll be interested to see what role he plays in the Senate over the next few years.



    While the problem we have right now may be a demographic one, and an ideological one, it is not an existential one.

    From the article:

    The central divide in American politics is the same as the divide in almost every advanced democracy on earth: between one party more committed to private enterprise and another party more supportive of the public sector. These parties may be called Conservative and Labour, Christian Democrat and Social Democrat, Gaullist and Socialist. By comparison with some other democracies—in fact, by comparison with most other democracies—the purely ideological differences between the parties in this country are relatively narrow. Yet the political game is played in this country with a vehemence and recklessness unseen almost anyplace else in the democratic world.

    If the parties are to serve the country for which they profess such patriotism, they must step back from the brink.

    On the Republican side, the road to renewal begins with this formula: 21st-century conservatism must become economically inclusive, environmentally responsible, culturally modern, and intellectually credible.

    I can remember a Republican Party that was not backward-looking. I can remember a Republican Party excited by science and its possibilities. I can remember a Republican Party that regarded those Americans who thought differently not as aliens and enemies, but as fellow citizens who had not yet been convinced of the merit of our ideas.
    It's not that there are no conservatives left in a changing America, but that many of today's Republicans don't know what a 21st century Conservative looks like.

    We have plenty of smart conservative talent within the GOP, it's just a matter of giving them license to turn the page on 20th century policies.

    We are in for a very interesting few years indeed.

  3. #53
    respect the brick C.J.Woolf's Avatar
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    If Chris Christie's embrace of President Obama was in fact calculated, then he's positioning himself to be the first post-Tea Party Republican candidate. That is, he's betting that the Tea Party wave will crest and they will not affect the 2016 primaries as they did in 2012.

  4. #54
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    How come Republicans no longer talk about Bobby Jindal as an up-and-comer? For a Republican, he has liberal views on health care, even if his views on women's issues and intelligent design are solidly in the more conservative wing of the party. He's also not white, which would seem to help moving forward.
    He gave that stupid ass speech back in '09 in response to Barack's first State of the Union and just never really recovered.

    Here's an Economist article about it.
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    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Rubio is the greatest talent we've got.

    And the greatest public speaker I've had the privilege of seeing live.
    Yeah, but, all due respect, you're not exactly a part of the demographic that would need convincing on Rubio.


    He came in in 2010, and like everyone who came in that class, had to play to those voters.

    With the defeat in 2012, he will have much more leeway to act in a bipartisan manner.

    Which he has a lot of experience with given that he was the speaker of the Florida State House prior to becoming Senator.

    Florida loves him, and that will continue to be important nationally.

    I'll be interested to see what role he plays in the Senate over the next few years.
    I know that Rubio's been annointed by his party, and the "demographics" problem that the GOP has makes him all the more attractive as a candidate. But I just feel that Rubio's so far not managed to capture the imagination of the wider electorate in the way that other politicians that you mention have. I know Rubio will run in 2016, and may even get the nod. But unless he manages to do something major with immigration reform in the next couple of years, I don't think he's gonna be the guy.

    On the other hand, Martinez has something. not sure what it is, but I just remember watching her during the RNC convention and thinking that she could be our first female president. Or at the very least land on the ticket with someone as VP. I mean, just imagine a Christie/Martinez ticket. That would be damn near unstoppable in my mind.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
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  6. #56
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    To be fair to some extent young voters tend to be more idealistic and democratic and tend to become more conservative as they age.
    Actually, that's not factually supported (it's a truism which isn't actually true). Most people become more tolerant and liberal as they get older, but the cohort effects remains because of early cultural environment, and there can be reinforcing ongoing environmental effects.

    I think there is a kind of intolerant idealism that is associated with youth, but it cuts both ways (that is, the young can be idealistically intolerant from a liberal or conservative perspective). Late adolescence is a time when personal opinions are formed, but with that comes an increased intolerance for opposing views. I think most (but far from all) people learn to be more accepting of human nature as they age.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    I know that Rubio's been annointed by his party, and the "demographics" problem that the GOP has makes him all the more attractive as a candidate. But I just feel that Rubio's so far not managed to capture the imagination of the wider electorate in the way that other politicians that you mention have. I know Rubio will run in 2016, and may even get the nod. But unless he manages to do something major with immigration reform in the next couple of years, I don't think he's gonna be the guy.

    On the other hand, Martinez has something. not sure what it is, but I just remember watching her during the RNC convention and thinking that she could be our first female president. Or at the very least land on the ticket with someone as VP. I mean, just imagine a Christie/Martinez ticket. That would be damn near unstoppable in my mind.
    The next few years will be very interesting in the Senate.

    And Rubio certainly has something.

    The only reason he isn't big nationally is because of how new he is. He hasn't had time to really do much.

    Just wait and see...

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    Rubio is Cuban, and I read that most non-Cuban Latinos don't like Cubans (or Cuban-Americans, anyway).

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    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post

    Just wait and see...
    I'll be sure to bring you some tissues when they run him, and you boys will be looking down the barrel of another 4 years of a Democratic White House.

    Don't worry, they'll be the fancy kind. With the lotion and stuff.
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    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    For a Republican, he has liberal views on health care.
    What are his views?* I'm open to sustainable health care reforms, and I could even learn to live with economically unsustainable ones....but the Individual Mandate is a red line for me....regardless of its practicality, the damage it does to the Constitution (damages that it would be virtually impossible for future majorities to override, unlike, say, certain provisions of the Patriot Act) is simply too big for me to ignore.

    On that subject, an issue I'll find very interesting (in the Chinese sense) over the coming years is whether Obama will publically present himself as willing to do without the Individual Mandate, if the Republicans are willing to accept alternative mechanisms, and how the Republicans would react to such an offer?

    It would be a political masterstroke on Obama's part; he would be seen as willing to compromise on a major issue, he would win points with Independents over a particularly unpopular component of Obamacare, and he would potentially divide the Republican Party along the lines of economic technocrats and federalists/Constitutional conservatives. In short, he would win a political victory regardless of the outcome.

    *At the national level, Jindal's views on evolution are likely to restrict his success to Louisiana, and his Christian beliefs might even limit his effectiveness as a bridge to Indian-Americans (as with Nikki Haley).

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