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  1. #521
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    In my estimation he's gaining enough power to not have to dance to their tune anymore. I'm hoping he, and other young republicans like Rand Paul begin to play the tune instead.

    That's just my hope and informed guess at this point. We'll have to wait and see if it holds any water.
    That's the difference. Rand has always played his own tune and still gets plenty of the spotlight.

    I suppose if Rand wasn't there I would have lower expectations and more hope for Rubio.

    What concerns me is not just how he wheels and deals in DC but how he deals with power in his own state. He didn't stand up to the sugar interests when it came to vote for lower importation duties on sugar which would have benefitted all consumers.
    Take the weakest thing in you
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  2. #522
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    That's the difference. Rand has always played his own tune and still gets plenty of the spotlight.

    I suppose if Rand wasn't there I would have lower expectations and more hope for Rubio.

    What concerns me is not just how he wheels and deals in DC but how he deals with power in his own state. He didn't stand up to the sugar interests when it came to vote for lower importation duties on sugar which would have benefitted all consumers.
    Rand has a presidential candidate/congressman father, who had the national spotlight before Rand was even in the picture.

    Having coattails to ride in on helps immensely. Not too mention he already had access to money outside of the Republican machine through his father's libertarian brand building.

    That is the most important part of the whole thing. If he was literally anyone else, he would have to bow to the Republican party line to even get in the door (access the the kind of money one needs the run a campaign).

    Rubio got his start as the Speaker of the Florida state house, and was mentored by Jeb.

    I used to look through Florida donor lists for the American Action Network and I remember distinctly seeing Florida Crystals behind some 6 figure donations.

    On a non publicized vote regarding farm subsidies where voting for the subsidies would do nothing but benefit Rubio (funding from sugar farms, keep jobs in florida etc..) he has no incentive to do otherwise.

    Attach the farm bill to a larger debt reduction vote that has more public scrutiny, and he could get public credit for standing up to sugar and for deficit reduction as opposed to no credit in a farm bill.

    Politics is a fucked up game of chess.

  3. #523
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Rand has a presidential candidate/congressman father, who had the national spotlight before Rand was even in the picture.

    Having coattails to ride in on helps immensely. Not too mention he already had access to money outside of the Republican machine through his father's libertarian brand building.

    That is the most important part of the whole thing. If he was literally anyone else, he would have to bow to the Republican party line to even get in the door (access the the kind of money one needs the run a campaign).

    Rubio got his start as the Speaker of the Florida state house, and was mentored by Jeb.

    I used to look through Florida donor lists for the American Action Network and I remember distinctly seeing Florida Crystals behind some 6 figure donations.

    On a non publicized vote regarding farm subsidies where voting for the subsidies would do nothing but benefit Rubio (funding from sugar farms, keep jobs in florida etc..) he has no incentive to do otherwise.

    Attach the farm bill to a larger debt reduction vote that has more public scrutiny, and he could get public credit for standing up to sugar and for deficit reduction as opposed to no credit in a farm bill.

    Politics is a fucked up game of chess.
    And what's the end game?
    If you compromise on the little then you'll compromise on the big.

    Rubio has 6 years. If he used those years to actually vote for the right things he would be far more helpful to the GOP then the fools who retain power for 30 years and never stand up to corporate interests. besides you never know, Ron voted his conscious and he still kept getting elected.

    It's only a fucked up game because people continue to play the game.

    Demint was on his way out, but at least he stuck to his values.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...109011402.html
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  4. #524
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    My point is that Republicans have lost their centrism.
    What is centrism to you?

    The problem is that we are a deeply divided nation with no consensus as to what constitutes the center.

  5. #525
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    What is centrism to you?

    The problem is that we are a deeply divided nation with no consensus as to what constitutes the center.
    Some mysterious zone we can all "live with", and grumble about equally. The sum of all of our good and nasty bits.

    I think any other kind of reform or activism is only necessary when there's overwhelming support. And there's at least 300 million people in the country, and probably half or so vote. No one can truly claim they're in touch with the pulse of the nation, in light of that. Or worse, think they know "what's good for everyone". It takes many representatives to come to the conclusion that there's overwhelming support. If one person or interest stands up and claims they know better, then the system will tend to correct itself. If it doesn't, I kind of wish we'd go back to the early Republic days, and have their fellow congressmen beat the shit out of them with their canes. There's nothing worse than a stubborn idealist.

  6. #526
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    If the Republicans are interested in changing their brand, they're apparently procrastinating on it, because that's not what they're doing right now, and what they're doing right now is a terrible idea.

    The Republican Sequestration Plan

    Whether or not you agree with it, and whether or not it will work, President Obama’s strategy on sequestration is perfectly obvious. His goal is to end the automatic budget cuts, which he regards as stupidly constructed and likely to harm the economy, and replace them with a long-term deficit reduction deal, balanced between cuts to retirement programs and closing off tax deductions. His plan to win involves isolating the unpopularity of both sequestration and the Republican Party’s goals (especially its refusal to raise taxes on the rich) in order to force the opposition to compromise.

    The whole drama, then, lies with the Republicans. And deciphering the GOP strategy is as mysterious as gaming out the plans of a tiny band of warring clans in some mountainous region of Afghanistan. Nearly everything about them is almost completely inscrutable to outsiders. What is the party actually hoping to accomplish in the end? How do Republican leaders think they will arrive there?

    Deepening the bafflement is that the Republicans’ apparent approach bears no relation either to political reality or to the party's stated goals. President Obama is offering up something — hundreds of billions of dollars in cuts to Social Security and Medicare — that Republicans say they want and which (because of their unpopularity) they have proven unable to obtain even when they have had full control of government. They are instead undertaking a public showdown against a figure who is vastly more popular and trusted, who possesses a better platform to communicate his message, and whose message itself — spread the pain among rich and middle class alike, don’t cut retirement programs more deeply than needed in order to protect tax loopholes for the rich — commands overwhelmingly higher public support.
    - See more at: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer....iyUInD7s.dpuf
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  7. #527
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    If the Republicans are interested in changing their brand, they're apparently procrastinating on it, because that's not what they're doing right now, and what they're doing right now is a terrible idea.

    The Republican Sequestration Plan
    Nothing we do is likely to garner approval from you or your ilk.

    It's either we aren't reforming, or we're not doing it fast enough, or something else. You will always find something to nit pick regardless of what we do, so I'll continue to ignore you, much like I ignore the far right.

    The decisions we've made on the sequester make perfect sense.

    Unless the sky falls as Obama predicted, the histrionics over the cuts will look increasingly out of touch with reality.

    You really are invested in our demise.

    You're going to be disappointed.

    See you in 2014.

  8. #528
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Nothing we do is likely to garner approval from you or your ilk.

    It's either we aren't reforming, or we're not doing it fast enough, or something else. You will always find something to nit pick regardless of what we do, so I'll continue to ignore you, much like I ignore the far right.
    I'm saying this with the impression that this will hurt the Republicans with moderate independents.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    The decisions we've made on the sequester make perfect sense.

    Unless the sky falls as Obama predicted, the histrionics over the cuts will look increasingly out of touch with reality.
    The sky doesn't have to fall in. It just has to suck enough to not justify the minor savings or the totally avoidable inaction. I suspect Obama has the resources to inflate it up to that level even if it falls short of that modest goal. Now, even if the sequester didn't hurt, the best it would do is play into the already standing image of Republicans as too rigid and unconstructive.

    Do you have a plan if the sequester does do damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    You really are invested in our demise.

    You're going to be disappointed.

    See you in 2014.
    All the polls show Republicans taking the majority of the blame for anything that happens, and it shows them at a popularity disadvantage to the Democrats and particularly the president, and reasons cited for their unpopularity have to do with being ideological and uncompromising. This is not a good time to be doing what the Republicans are doing.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  9. #529
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    The current Republicans like shrinking government at all costs, even if it's done inefficiently. It's a win-win situation to them. I'm more disappointed how Repubs are snubbing their own people. Hagel is one strange example, but CPAC has dissed Chris Christie in favor of catering to proven losers, like Palin, Romney, and Newt. Christie is the best thing they have going for them, but apparently, they don't even know it. It's like he has cooties just for working with Obama.

  10. #530
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    The current Republicans like shrinking government at all costs, even if it's done inefficiently. It's a win-win situation to them. I'm more disappointed how Repubs are snubbing their own people. Hagel is one strange example, but CPAC has dissed Chris Christie in favor of catering to proven losers, like Palin, Romney, and Newt. Christie is the best thing they have going for them, but apparently, they don't even know it. It's like he has cooties just for working with Obama.
    Chris Christie is too friendly with Democrats and too capable of deal making. He does currently poll higher than any other Republican for the presidency, and he also polls the best against candidates like Clinton or Biden. If you narrow the polls down to just Republicans, however, than Christie falls behind to people who are more likely to lose. So far it reflects what I've suspected, which is that being a Republican primary winner means being a general election loser.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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