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  1. #501
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I was never a big fan of either of them.

    I'm seeing a lot of encouraging signs in the parts the political media I read (which admittedly has many folks who have been arguing that we need to reform for several years).

    Thoughts and sentiments that would have been taken as heresy two years ago are now being espoused by fairly respectable figures within the ranks of right leaning journalists and academics.

    I'm convinced that the younger class of Republicans in D.C. and in governorships (Ryan, Cantor, Rubio, Jindal etc..) know that they are going to need to evolve their positions as popular opinion shifts to a more secular, and socially libertarian stance.

    I'm convinced that Rubio is the smartest political operator we have up there at the moment, and will be able to read which way the winds are blowing and act accordingly.

    For now, our younger Republicans have to walk a tight rope between maintaining stances that make them attractive to the public while still catering to the party enough to not piss them off, not to mention crafting views that are still agreeable to primary voters at the same time.

    This tight rope is why the reform isn't going to be overnight. Many of our higher ups made their careers saying things that have no place in modern politics. Unfortunately, most of these people are the ones holding the reins in the party, and help determine our platform.

    The reins are being passed right now, as donors are pissed with the performance in 2012.

    I'm curious to see how fast this will happen. I hope we don't take 2 steps back to pay lip service to the primary voters in '14.

    We need to look and espouse views more attractive to the general electorate in 2014 while still getting primary votes if we want to run strong in '16.
    I hate the way Rubio operates. Ingratiating himself to McCain and Graham. Picking Rove's side in his new war on conservatives.

    Plus, he will do nothing about the military industrial complex.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  2. #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Half of the time, it's as simple as not insulting potential voters (like the 47% comment, or buddying up with extremists.. or get this, waving them off as stupid
    In your personal case I think that shoe fits.

    I hope next go around we have plants in Democratic $50,000 a plate dinners to record some of the more colorful statements that go on at all such events (on both sides).

    Like "clinging to guns and religion". We should run a tighter ship next go around and have equally capable saboteurs.

    Many people are willing to be sold an idea and "test" out different political ideologies, but not when a crackpot politician warrants a "WTF?" or a hawkish one makes them nervous.
    We've already expunged the Akin's, Mourdoch's, Palin's etc...

    That garbage won't be accepted by the party anymore.

    Hell Karl Rove (regardless of one's personal feelings about the man) has started a super PAC (the conservative victory project I think) just to keep crazies from winning primaries.

    We're aware of the problem and we're already working on it.

    Millions of dollars spent on polling and strategy, and most of the time, it just takes not being a lunatic or an asshole. The bar is low.
    It takes more than that. If it didn't anyone who wasn't a lunatic or an asshole could do it.

    It takes articulating how fundamental conservative ideas can address the problems we face, and that those ideas can benefit all of us and move American strongly into the 21st century.

  3. #503
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    In your personal case I think that shoe fits..
    So there's nowhere to go except insults then, eh?

    Enjoy your weekend. I'm in a good mood.

  4. #504
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    We've already expunged the Akin's, Mourdoch's, Palin's etc...

    That garbage won't be accepted by the party anymore.

    Hell Karl Rove (regardless of one's personal feelings about the man) has started a super PAC (the conservative victory project I think) just to keep crazies from winning primaries.

    We're aware of the problem and we're already working on it.
    Democrats say and do ridiculous stuff all the time, but stick together and somehow maintain the moral high ground.

    I don't know how they can have a senator in their midst who screws underage dominican hookers, but we have to get rid of someone who makes one poorly worded statement?

    It's so freaking upside. It has little to do with who's in our party or how offensive they are.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  5. #505
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Democrats say and do ridiculous stuff all the time, but stick together and somehow maintain the moral high ground.

    I don't know how they can have a senator in their midst who screws underage dominican hookers, but we have to get rid of someone who makes one poorly worded statement?

    It's so freaking upside. It has little to do with who's in our party or how offensive they are.
    That sounds like bizarro world. I've always thought of the Republican party as the one that maintains solidarity while their members are being asses, and the Democratic party as the one that can't maintain solidarity even when things are fine. Regarding Menendez, that's a pretty recent story and I doubt he'll last. If he does, it will be a new turn of events.

    Noting your analysis of the situation, here's someone saying basically the opposite.

    Deluded Republican Reformers

    Conservative pundits’ ideas about fixing the GOP are totally meaningless, says Michael Tomasky, until they deal with the problem of their party’s rage-driven fanaticism.
    As I’ve written many times, the conventional view of what’s wrong with the GOP gets at only a portion of the truth. When The New York Times or Politico does such a story, the story inevitably focuses on policy positions. Immigration. Same-sex marriage. Climate change. Tinker with these positions, several sages are quoted as saying, and the GOP will be back in the game.

    God knows, policy positions are a problem. But they are not the problem. The problem is that the party is fanatical—a machine of rage, hate, and resentment. People are free to scoff and pretend it isn’t so, but I don’t think honest people can deny that we’ve never seen anything like this in the modern history of our country. There’s a symbiosis of malevolence between the extreme parts of the GOP base and Washington lawmakers, and it is destroying the Republican Party. That’s fine with me, although I am constantly mystified as to why it’s all right with the people I’m talking about. But it’s also destroying the country and our democratic institutions and processes, which is not fine with me.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  6. #506
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post

    It's so freaking upside. It has little to do with who's in our party or how offensive they are.
    It's not about offensive, necessarily. It's about scaring people. Not me btw.

    It could be that the far right themselves are scared in their own way too (moral panic, immigration concerns, "commie" panic, etc). Only thing is that they've suddenly voiced their concerns militantly. Which contributes to more fear. The rest of the country is generally squeamish of militancy (right or left). Some might denounce that as funny and say we've become a nation of pussies, but it is what it is.

  7. #507
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    I hate the way Rubio operates. Ingratiating himself to McCain and Graham. Picking Rove's side in his new war on conservatives.

    Plus, he will do nothing about the military industrial complex.
    He operates that way because he knows how to climb the ladder, and more specifically who to glad hand to do so.

    He's sided with the hawk wing because until the sequester that was the most powerful wing of the party.

    Having staked out his pro military position, I'd agree that he won't do anything about military spending, but that's OK because we have plenty of other folks in the party namely Paul who will.

    If it weren't for the way Rubio ingratiated himself to the party, he wouldn't be on the cover of Time. I think Rubio will be strongest on immigration clearly.

    He has the next several years to stake out where he stands on other issues. I would not be surprised if his hawkishness gets toned down as the winds continue to blow in the other direction.

    I'd bet that he will be strong on education as well, which has always been his mentor Jeb Bush's highest priority. That issue dove tails well with immigration and helping poverty and the middle class.

    I hope he strongly hops on the Liquid Natural Gas, and Nuclear energy trains.

    I would prefer that Rubio wasn't so hawkish because that's where my personal beliefs lie, but you have to play the game to win, and I won't begrudge his hawkishness because I think he shrewdly adopted it to move up in the party.

    Once he gets to a place where he can determine policy, not just agree with what the party line is, I bet his military stance becomes less stark.

    This will be a slow process as he's already having to tread carefully on the amnesty issue.

    But to his credit, he's changed the opinions of talk radio hosts on it.

    This is why I like him. He's got enough cred with the establishment to help them evolve their views on immigration which would have been unthinkable in 2006.

    Once immigration is behind him, he'll (hopefully) have the political capital to help the party evolve on other issues.

  8. #508
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Actually if you want to look for people to hang out to dry don't look at Akin or Mourdock who each had one indiscretion and yet have worked long and hard for the party.

    Look at Rush, Hannity, and O'Reilly and company. If our problem is one of perception and the media has the most control over that we should look there for the blame. That means both the left and right leaning media. We can't do Much about left leaning media, but fox and company are making millions of dollars and giving the GOP a bad name.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  9. #509
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    So there's nowhere to go except insults then, eh?
    Not trying to insult you.

    There are maybe 6 or 7 people on TypoC that I wouldn't level the same charge at.

  10. #510
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Not trying to insult you.

    There are maybe 6 or 7 people on TypoC that I wouldn't level the same charge at.
    In any case, I think you're calling me stupid just because you don't like outside criticism. Like you're saying "Screw you. We've got it covered." I disagree that the party has gotten over anything or found their identity just yet. You and Beorn are touching on other points yourself about Rubio, as well as the recent shit with Newt and Rove's SuperPAC. And I'm not convinced the extreme elements of the Tea Party are on the downspin. Who knows what Ted Cruz will do next? There's still plenty of time for Republicans to move away from that, or to further become the butt of jokes.

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