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  1. #241
    Senior Member BAJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    That's F***ING BULLS***! California has a ratio of only 78%? Bullshit. Our government spends more than any other state (especially on welfare), also with the highest taxes, and our budget shortfall is a CONSTANT issues, and our counties are tipping on bankruptcy. Don't believe everything you see on the internet.
    Hummm. The picture was not talking about the state budget. Are you talking about the state budget or the ratio of Federal dollars spent versus tax dollars collected?

  2. #242
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAJ View Post
    Hummm. The picture was not talking about the state budget. Are you talking about the state budget or the ratio of Federal dollars spent versus tax dollars collected?
    He doesn't know what he's talking about. He's never put much thought into it. He just "knows" in his "gut" that the "libs" have screwed up California. So any evidence that contradicts that conclusion must be a lie (from the pit of Hell).
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #243
    Feline Member kelric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    That's F***ING BULLS***! California has a ratio of only 78%? Bullshit. Our government spends more than any other state (especially on welfare), also with the highest taxes, and our budget shortfall is a CONSTANT issues, and our counties are tipping on bankruptcy. Don't believe everything you see on the internet.
    That's not what the chart is about. It's showing the amount of *federal* spending in each state, compared to the amount of *federal* taxes paid by residents of that state. California, like many less rural "blue" states, pays a lot more into the federal government than it receives. Californians (and residents of many other states with higher urban populations) are subsidizing more rural states. The fact that those same rural states tend to support candidates who decry federal spending while simultaneously taking more than they give is the issue here.

    So like you say, California's budget issues are rather legendary at a state level (whoever came up with the idea of a majority to spend money and a supermajority to raise money?), but that's not the issue in question.

    ... Yeah, what BAJ and Lateralus said.
    Last edited by kelric; 11-17-2012 at 01:07 PM. Reason: because I'm slow and write too much :p
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #244
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelric View Post
    So like you say, California's budget issues are rather legendary at a state level (whoever came up with the idea of a majority to spend money and a supermajority to raise money?), but that's not the issue in question.
    I would argue that if California was getting its fair share of benefits from the federal government (1:1 ratio) its state budget issues would be greatly reduced, if not eliminated. And if the rural states were getting their fair share, they would be the ones with the massive budget issues.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAJ View Post
    Hummm. The picture was not talking about the state budget. Are you talking about the state budget or the ratio of Federal dollars spent versus tax dollars collected?
    I'm sorry, I read that as state spending per dollar of taxes paid (to the state), entirely different. Honestly I feel the state spending/taxing tells a much more... accurate story in terms of the fiscal policies of the states themselves vs. federal spending. But I do see your point on how the red states take in more federal tax money.

  6. #246
    Senior Member BAJ's Avatar
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    Saying something is falsehood (like in a rep...you know who you are), and calling out untruth is one thing. I could in fact be wrong, but simply saying so takes no work. It's like all those lazy red states who take in more Federal money than they generate. Prove me wrong!

    Solving these puzzles takes a lot of work, but posting generalizations and rhetoric like we are going to become the party for "all people" or saying that Republicans are going to take institutions back, are things that take no work at all. It's empty.

    I want people to explain exactly how they are going to do it. Someone should make a strategy game about this. It's fascinating.

  7. #247
    Senior Member BAJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    I'm sorry, I read that as state spending per dollar of taxes paid (to the state), entirely different. Honestly I feel the state spending/taxing tells a much more... accurate story in terms of the fiscal policies of the states themselves vs. federal spending. But I do see your point on how the red states take in more federal tax money.
    Okay, thank you. In truth these are things that I googled, and I'm not always sure about them. The first one I noticed is 2005, but the later mother jones link is more current, I think.

  8. #248
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    I'm sorry, I read that as state spending per dollar of taxes paid (to the state), entirely different. Honestly I feel the state spending/taxing tells a much more... accurate story in terms of the fiscal policies of the states themselves vs. federal spending. But I do see your point on how the red states take in more federal tax money.
    If you don't think that the tens of billions of dollars that are siphoned out of California's economy each year has an effect on its state budget, then you must also believe that corporate tax rates have no effect on profitability.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #249
    Senior Member BAJ's Avatar
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    So I'm working with facts, but also I'm moved by anecdotes, and primarily ones I myself have experienced and encountered over the past 20 years. I went from voting for the first Bush, and then becoming enraged that Gore lost. I guess during that interval I got two college degrees and read some books, including "Earth in the Balance." In graduate school, I took a class called, "the sociology of natural resources and the environment". I took "environmental geology" in undergrad, though I majored in biology, and co-oped for 6 months with the state environmental management agency.

    I may have been irrevocably corrupted either by "facts" or "education". I don't think it was liberalism, but something about education changed me.

    Maybe it was because of the culture shock of working in the extremely conservative environment of the Mississippi Delta after graduate school, and hearing the racist "n-word" used constantly in the work environment...in colored people's faces or on open radio or in Sunday school class. I became more bitter towards conservatism, especially racism.

    It many not be possible, but I'd like Republicans to reach across as if they were a candidate...to sit down and talk facts, like Clinton did at the democratic convention, and explain how the Republican party is best or will be best in the future. I'd like them to pretend that I'm actually a voter they care about rather than one they've written off because he will vote democrat anyway.

  10. #250
    Senior Member BAJ's Avatar
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    Here's another sad one showing the distribution of racist tweets post election:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/poli...icle-1.1199402

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