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  1. #201
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    One thing I remember off hand (and it was a while ago) was a special glenn beck did with a lot of mothers. I remember feeling putt off my it because many of the women we're stay at home mom's. Not that being a stay at home is bad but I didn't know any stay at home mom's. My mother and all my friends mothers worked (One worked a daycare center from her home). My grandmothers and my great grandmothers all worked outside the house as seamstresses, nurses, office workers, housekeepers ect. It just seemed like his version of the American mother was so removed from mine.
    You were put off because 'many' of the mothers were stay-at-home mothers? Were they even a majority of the program's participants? Because it sounds to me like the problem is with you if you felt 'put off' by the inclusion of more than a third of American moms (this pre-recession number was probably substantially higher when you were a child).

    I also find it strange that you didn't know any homemakers growing up....was your school system/church/social circle really that segregated along economic lines, that you had no casual contact with the middle-class? Or was it primarily self-selection?

  2. #202
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinker683 View Post
    I feel like they could be the party that would represent individuals like me but that they aren't right now
    The Republican party, like the Democratic party, is a coalition of various factions and interests in pursuit of that 50.1% majority....unless you're positive that a clear majority of Americans are exactly like you, hoping that any viable party will almost perfectly represent you is futile.

  3. #203
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    The Republican party, like the Democratic party, is a coalition of various factions and interests in pursuit of that 50.1% majority....unless you're positive that a clear majority of Americans are exactly like you, hoping that any viable party will almost perfectly represent you is futile.
    I realize that, thank you, but some parties can represent me better than others the GOP in its present state is ruled by its shills and hacks. If it can jettison the hacks and put the intelligent ones in charge I'll be much more interested in them.
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson

  4. #204
    Senior Member BAJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I don't think there's anything substantive here to respond to.
    .
    Exactly.

  5. #205
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    You were put off because 'many' of the mothers were stay-at-home mothers? Were they even a majority of the program's participants? Because it sounds to me like the problem is with you if you felt 'put off' by the inclusion of more than a third of American moms (this pre-recession number was probably substantially higher when you were a child).

    I also find it strange that you didn't know any homemakers growing up....was your school system/church/social circle really that segregated along economic lines, that you had no casual contact with the middle-class? Or was it primarily self-selection?
    To my memory it seemed like the majority of the women on the program were homemakers. I wasn't put off my their inclusion I was out off because it seemed like working mothers weren't represented and my experience of mothers were that they worked.

    And we are middle class


    I don't know why There weren't any stay at home moms there just weren't. I don't know how I as a child would have self selected against SAH mothers. All of the adult women I knew growing up worked .

    Edit: double checked with mom to make sure I wasn't imagining things. she couldn't come up with a non-working mom that we'd known either. I'm not saying there wasn't a single one in our area just that we don't known any.

  6. #206
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    For a thread that seems to be about how the Republican party should move forward, many seem to only care about shitting on the party and its members.
    So far, I've been addressing proposals about a future plan for the Republicans, so what I've been talking about has been related to the focus of the thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post


    Tell that to all the Pakistani children who've been victims of drone strikes.
    As it is, I haven't been given much reason to believe that Republicans would be less aggressive with their foreign policy. It seems like they'd be more aggressive. So, the statement still stands that the Democratic party comes closer.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  7. #207
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    To my memory it seemed like the majority of the women on the program were homemakers. I wasn't put off my their inclusion I was out off because it seemed like working mothers weren't represented and my experience of mothers were that they worked.

    I don't know how I as a child would have self selected against SAH mothers. All of the adult women I knew growing up worked .
    Fair enough, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if Glenn Beck greatly under-represented working mothers on his show.

    I was referring to self-selection by your mother (i.e. friends and aquaintences of hers that were a part of your life), as an explanatory factor behind the statistical improbability of not knowing any homemakers growing up. That's also the reason I assumed you didn't grow up middle-class, as homemaking is not a particularly viable option for poor mothers, making it much more likely for one not to have known any, especially if family friends and aquaintences all lived in the same part of a town highly segregated along economic lines. I was kind of thinking along the lines of the old "How could he have won, I don't know anybody who voted for him!" cliche.

  8. #208
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Fair enough, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if Glenn Beck greatly under-represented working mothers on his show.

    I was referring to self-selection by your mother (i.e. friends and aquaintences of hers that were a part of your life), as an explanatory factor behind the statistical improbability of not knowing any homemakers growing up. That's also the reason I assumed you didn't grow up middle-class, as homemaking is not a particularly viable option for poor mothers, making it much more likely for one not to have known any, especially if family friends and aquaintences all lived in the same part of a town highly segregated along economic lines. I was kind of thinking along the lines of the old "How could he have won, I don't know anybody who voted for him!" cliche.
    Some infor from census.gov


    94%
    The percentage of the 37.8 million mothers living with children younger than 18 in 2004, who lived with their biological children only. In addition, 3 percent lived with any stepchildren, 2 percent with any adopted children and less than 1 percent with any foster children.
    Source: Living Arrangements of Children: 2004 <http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/p70-114.pdf>

    5 million
    Number of stay-at-home moms in 2011 — same as in 2010 and down from 5.1 million in 2009 and 5.3 million in 2008 (the estimates for 2010 and 2009 are not statistically different). In 2011, 23 percent of married-couple family groups with children under 15 had a stay-at-home mother, up from 21 percent in 2000. In 2007, before the recession, stay-at-home mothers were found in 24 percent of married-couple family groups with children under 15.
    Source: America's Families and Living Arrangements Table SHP-1 <http://www.census.gov/population/www/socdemo/hh-fam.html>

    So if there are 37.8 million mothers with children under 18 and 5 million of them are stay-at home moms then wouldn't that mean only around 13% of mothers are stay at homes rather than a third? And assuming that there are more upper-income mothers choosing to stay home wouldn't it be not that unusually for me, in a middle class areas, to have not run across that many? These are just numbers I found, where did you see that it was a third of mothers staying home? + a little for them only tracking SAHMs until the kids are 15, but realistically maybe a max of 17% .



    Also

    10.0 million
    The number of single mothers living with children younger than 18 in 2011, up from 3.4 million in 1970.
    Source: America's Families and Living Arrangements <http://www.census.gov/population/www/socdemo/hh-fam.html> FM-2
    Maybe I'm reading it wrong but it appears to me that there are around twice as many single mothers as there are stay at home mothers? More people are experiencing single parent families thatn the traditional two parent family with a stay at home mother. As a person raised by a single mother I think this kind of highlights what I was talking about before with republicans who talk nostalgically about the nuclear family and inadvertently alienating some people who never had that experience. On one had yes you can understand their point but on the other if you feel you were raised well you don't really connect with the idea of kids being raised in a one parent home as such a distressing problem. Or that necessarily the "best" place for kids is with a mother and a father depending on the circumstances of your family. Perhaps you believe you single mom was fully capable of shaping you into the best person you could be and so, besides their good intent, you feel a bit outside of their message.

  9. #209
    Senior Member BAJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    So far, I've been addressing proposals about a future plan for the Republicans, so what I've been talking about has been related to the focus of the thread.



    .


    I mean really. We are talking about the Republican party rising like phoenix from a huge pile of shit. The first step is acknowledging the problem. I'm shoveling stuff on the GOP, but talking about things I observe as being already there.

    And the first thing is that, if they are going to become a party for everyone, they need to stop treating most Americans as irrelevant or "nothing to be responded to."

    Rather, I think they say we need to return to "American values" or something else. Quit being different, they say. Conform to our program. Stop being gay. Start being religious. Or whatever. Good ole values of God, country, and family, and the American ideals. A hierarchical system.

    Whereas the democratic ideal is one of striving for fairness and a more egalitarian society, with less rigorous class structure, inclusiveness, diversity, globalization.

    I just watched Gingrich on Colbert a few minutes ago. The Republicans need to look at those weighted demographic splits and figure out where they went wrong.

    Of course, I guess I realize neither party is really going to make me feel loved or provide what I want, but I feel like the democrats are trying. They are trying to include me, not conform me.

    I'm tiny one vote, even if I am in Florida, and I don't matter, maybe, but the Republicans are going to need to deal with feelings, and quit trying to pound society into a molding where it doesn't fit anymore.

  10. #210
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post


    Tell that to all the Pakistani children who've been victims of drone strikes.
    After all, there is a difference between try and is.

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