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  1. #181
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    I think one thing that turns me personally off about conservatism is that they seem very tied to the idea of a certain "American" way of doing things. the "Real America". Their ideal America doesn't really reflect my experience of America. Just using me as an example. I'm a biracial person with an immigrant stepparent. From 4-18 I was raised by a single mother. going back generations my family has never really been from small towns or middle america. So for my family a lot of the "simpler times" or "how it used to be"s are not really times that were good for people like us. A lot of the times when I hear conservative speakers I feel like they just aren't trying to talk to people like me at all.

    One thing I remember off hand (and it was a while ago) was a special glenn beck did with a lot of mothers. I remember feeling putt off my it because many of the women we're stay at home mom's. Not that being a stay at home is bad but I didn't know any stay at home mom's. My mother and all my friends mothers worked (One worked a daycare center from her home). My grandmothers and my great grandmothers all worked outside the house as seamstresses. It just seemed like his version of the American mother was so removed from mine.
    Here's the irony. Republicans engage in "identity politics" too. Republicans just don't realize they're engaging in it. It's their typical lack of self awareness. And you're right, in their minds you're not a "real American". The only way to become a "real American" is to be like them.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #182
    Senior Member BAJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Here's the irony. Republicans engage in "identity politics" too. Republicans just don't realize they're engaging in it. It's their typical lack of self awareness. And you're right, in their minds you're not a "real American". The only way to become a "real American" is to be like them.

    Leaving the issue of corrupting institutions aside...just looking at the convention floors...as I said, America doesn't look like the Republican convention. It was a sea of white people...which I can't exactly see how public education made it that way...

    For them it must be terrifying to have the re-election of a black man who's father was Kenyan, and who's mother was a single parent.

    If they want to reascend, the ending paragraph about taking things back and grass roots conservatism won't work, probably.

    Romney said 47% would vote for Obama no matter what. Ironically...in his definition of "people who have a sense of entitlement", etc., he included "the greatest generation", and AARP endorsed Obama.

    My parents are ultra-conservative. We argue about immigration, entitlements, and all kinds of stuff. But even my parents voted for Obama. My father and I had many bitter arguments about politics and religion, but he called to especially tell me that he was voting for Obama because Romney scared him. I was basically shocked. My dad is such a conservative asshole that he believes vets with PTSD should be treated like General Patton treated them. And Romney scared them because he offered no plan.

    So Republicans are attacking their base.

    Meanwhile the the non-religious, secular category has passed 20%, and perhaps "minorities" outnumber whites. It must be a scary time for Republicans and their white convention floor.

    I think Romney got his 47% wrong, obviously.

    The Republicans have a long row to hoe if they planning to add other colors to their convention floor. They are going to have to become the party for all Americans, with integrity, not the party of "who do you want me to be today."

  3. #183
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Here's the irony. Republicans engage in "identity politics" too. Republicans just don't realize they're engaging in it. It's their typical lack of self awareness. And you're right, in their minds you're not a "real American". The only way to become a "real American" is to be like them.
    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/1...he-dogwhistles

    I've actually seen quite a few of those ads on T.V., youtube, and etc this year. And quite honestly, the ads are offensive. Offensive to the point that no wonder people don't want to vote for the Republican Party. It is because those types of ads, and the words that come out of their mouth is the reason why some of us know where we stand in relevance to the Republican party. Even a friend of mine told me that the Republican Party has become crazy. And quite honestly, I agree. I agree that I won't vote for a party that splices a line between me and them and won't understand why I have such distaste for the party itself.

    And, I seriously believe that many of the party members actually believe those things.

    It is like comparing how the U.S. treated the Irish when they immigrated here, it is pathetic.

    Quote Originally Posted by BAJ View Post
    The Republicans have a long row to hoe if they planning to add other colors to their convention floor. They are going to have to become the party for all Americans, with integrity, not the party of "who do you want me to be today."
    About this point, one can say that the Democratic Party of today is a better living embodiment of what America try to accomplish through the 50's and 60's.

  4. #184
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    And where was it said that they were?
    Since it seemed to say we had a choice between one or the other, and then I used the dichotomous and you did not at that point refute the use of my word.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    It's about priorities.
    I don't see the conflicting priorities here.

    Equal work opportunities and wages for racial minorities and women, more control for women over their own sex lives, a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants and generally softer legal immigration laws combined with a fight against the presumed guilty of certain ethnicities, programs to give better chances to the poor. These things are about freedom, principles, values, improvement, and most of all equal opportunity. The "divisive" things liberals have been doing for the past half century hasn't been privately messaging each demographic and telling them that everyone else hates them. What liberals have been doing is putting through policy that helps marginalized people get more equal footing. If you thing that runs counter to all those appealing words, then we can see your problem right here.
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  5. #185
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Mitt Romney's first comments on the election just demonstrate what I'm talking about.

    Aside from coming across like the sorest loser in my memory of presidential elections, he's basically venting outrage that Obama won because he proposed policies that were appealing to various demographics other than old white men. What the hell was Obama supposed to do? Do we need a moratorium on policies that appeal to certain demographics more than others? Given how old some of these stances are, can we presume Obama really bought anyone off instead of just continuing to promote positions he thought were justified? Of all the crazy things about the way conservatives have reacted to Obama, the craziest is how thinly they've veiled their prejudices. The Fox News team have barely suppressed their sorrow every time they've mentioned that Obama won with minority votes. And how about single women?! People have been saying some really vicious things about the huge portion of single women that voted Obama. That sort of ugliness is the problem for the Republican party, and rather than addressing it, William Bennet's article seems to indicate obliviousness to it.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  6. #186
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Mitt Romney's first comments on the election just demonstrate what I'm talking about.

    Aside from coming across like the sorest loser in my memory of presidential elections, he's basically venting outrage that Obama won because he proposed policies that were appealing to various demographics other than old white men. What the hell was Obama supposed to do? Do we need a moratorium on policies that appeal to certain demographics more than others? Given how old some of these stances are, can we presume Obama really bought anyone off instead of just continuing to promote positions he thought were justified? Of all the crazy things about the way conservatives have reacted to Obama, the craziest is how thinly they've veiled their prejudices. The Fox News team have barely suppressed their sorrow every time they've mentioned that Obama won with minority votes. And how about single women?! People have been saying some really vicious things about the huge portion of single women that voted Obama. That sort of ugliness is the problem for the Republican party, and rather than addressing it, William Bennet's article seems to indicate obliviousness to it.

    Agreed.

    Save the drama and verbal debriefing for your own private men's club. I could really care less. And I doubt it's going to prove helpful to the future republican campaign...
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  7. #187
    Senior Member BAJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Mitt Romney's first comments on the election just demonstrate what I'm talking about.

    Aside from coming across like the sorest loser in my memory of presidential elections, he's basically venting outrage that Obama won because he proposed policies that were appealing to various demographics other than old white men. What the hell was Obama supposed to do? Do we need a moratorium on policies that appeal to certain demographics more than others? Given how old some of these stances are, can we presume Obama really bought anyone off instead of just continuing to promote positions he thought were justified? Of all the crazy things about the way conservatives have reacted to Obama, the craziest is how thinly they've veiled their prejudices. The Fox News team have barely suppressed their sorrow every time they've mentioned that Obama won with minority votes. And how about single women?! People have been saying some really vicious things about the huge portion of single women that voted Obama. That sort of ugliness is the problem for the Republican party, and rather than addressing it, William Bennet's article seems to indicate obliviousness to it.

    Part of my problem is listening to Liberal media...where some of the most damning things are what Republicans say about each other. In the primary campaign, both Perry and Gingrich condemned Romney as a "vulture capitalist".

    Then I see a video about precisely how that operates, and precisely how Bain Capital makes money, by churning companies, firing people, running up the debt of the company so it shows cash, and then selling it. It's horrible.

    In a presidential debate Romney said he'd remove the Capital Gains tax, which means he'd go from 14% to 0% taxes...

    Meanwhile, you have Obama who's main dealings with Reverend Wright were actually to try to find summer jobs for youths, etc. You have someone who got in the trenches and tried to find jobs for people.

    Yet, I believe in small business. I believe in the private sector. I voted Libertarian. Last night I went to "minute clinic" in the pharmacy and got a flu shot. I work for a corporation which has helped me way more than the government. I'm not really believing the government as "savior", or because we don't have the Liberal utopia I want, I voted Libertarian. I'm torn between wanting socialized services and believing corporations will make things so cheap that we will one day all get a cat scan at the pharmacy for a small fee.

    The Republicans need someone without a giant silver spoon up his ass, and then connect with a more diverse society.

  8. #188
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    From the Washington Examiner:

    Jindal: ‘Absolutely reject’ Romney’s explanation of loss

    LAS VEGAS — Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal, a possible Republican presidential contender in 2016, is leveling strong criticism at Mitt Romney’s theory of why President Obama won, and Romney lost, the presidential election.

    In a conference call with donors Wednesday, Romney said Obama won votes by offering enticing “gifts” to key Democratic voting groups like blacks, Hispanics, and the young. Subsidized health care, cheaper student loans, free contraceptives — those were all things Romney said Obama gave those constituencies in order to win support at the polls. “In each case, they were very generous in what they gave to those groups,” Romney told his donors.

    Asked about Romney’s comments at a meeting of the Republican Governors Association at the Encore Hotel here in Las Vegas, Jindal did not hold back. “That is absolutely wrong,” Jindal said. “Two points on that. One, we have got to stop dividing American voters. We need to go after 100 percent of the votes, not 53 percent — we need to go after every single vote. And second, we need to continue to show that our policies help every voter out there achieve the American dream, which is to be in the middle class, which is to be able to give their children the opportunity to get a great education, which is for their children to have even better-paying jobs than their parents.”

    “So I absolutely reject that notion, that description,” Jindal continued. I think it’s absolutely wrong. I don’t think that represents where we are as a party and where we’re going as a party. And that has got to be one of the most fundamental takeaways from this election. If we’re going to continue to be a competitive party and win elections on the national stage and continue to fight for our conservative principles, we need two messages to get out loudly and clearly. One, we are fighting for 100 percent of the votes, and secondly, our policies benefit every American who wants to pursue the American dream, period. No exceptions.”

  9. #189
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    For a thread that seems to be about how the Republican party should move forward, many seem to only care about shitting on the party and its members.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAJ View Post
    By this the Republicans should do everything in their power to decrease the percentage of college educated individuals, and decrease public education. I mean all the upper class Republicans need is a low cost, uneducated workforce, and if they make the population stupid enough they might all vote Republican.
    I would stop posting and sit the next few rounds out.

    What the article is saying is that Conservatives, have to fight the culture war in the classroom and on the movie screen. We don't need to go after those who dont take part in these institutions, we do need to change the narratives within them.

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