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  1. #161
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Fine: Rubik's Cube Solve-Off -- winner takes all!!
    The fate of the country hangs in the balance.


  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAJ View Post
    I didn't read the whole thread, but this is very interesting. I thought basically all conservatives were ignorant of these facts.
    And you have just shown how liberals are guilty of the same kind of epistemological closure that they accuse conservatives of.

  3. #163
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Just read this article on RCP and thought I'd post it.

    It makes the interesting point that since young people (18-29) are making up an increasingly large percent of voters (19% in the last election) that the party ought to look more to them for its future direction. It also made the point that in contrast to the Democratic party who have been able to turn out their base, particularly young people, using social issues, it hasn't worked so well for the GOP in terms of that demographic.

    Something that I didn't know was that the Tea Party has apparently been advocating moving away from social issues pretty much from jump. I guess then my question is what will become of the evangelicals and other elements of the far right after they've been sloughed off by the GOP?

    I posted elsewhere that the GOP has to do more than be the party of "No". I think that if they follow the Tea Party's strategy of fiscal conservativism + social agnosticsm, and were able to come up with meaningful entitlement reform in addition, hell, I might even consider voting for them.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

  4. #164
    Senior Member BAJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    And you have just shown how liberals are guilty of the same kind of epistemological closure that they accuse conservatives of.
    I was being a little sarcastic.

    Yet when I'm painfully forced to be in proximity to conservative media, such as Fox news or Rush, Hannity, Beck, I don't see any concern for facts or unbiased presentation.

    For example, the famous instance of Fox news omitting an entire sentence from something Obama said, running it together...deliberately misquoting him concerning "you didn't build that", and then printing it on t-shirts, buttons, and signs in front of businesses.

    It seems almost all of them believe the Fox version, without question.

    It's maddening.

    The same is true of history and interpretation of policy. For example, Romney keep saying during debates that he didn't want to go the way of Greece or Spain, with their high tax rates...but he omitted other countries with higher tax brackets that were successful. This is a lie of omission as well.

    So my skewed impression of Republican ignorance is based on numerous examples of this kind of behavior.

    On the other side, if you want to damage them, then play the whole quote. Republicans will damage themselves. The more they talk, the worse it is, so it's best not to edit what they say.

    I came around and Rush was trying to calculate some poor woman's sexual exploits based on her birth control expenses, mocking and joking, without any acknowledgement that women take birth control continuously and not just to prevent pregnancy. They take it for cramps or other reasons.

    Then you have Republicans talking about "legitimate rape" (i.e. if she got pregnant she was enjoying it), and rape as being "something God intended to happen."

    Then consider the 47% comment, which if you play the whole thing, Romney goes on to talk about using his wife as a political tool.

    It seems I'm saturated with media, and I'm actually pleased that you present such examples. That means that among the conservatives there may be a few people who are not mindless religious nuts or Fox news junkies.

    I should know better.

    Yet, to increase the double-sided irony, Republicans actually believe they are fiscally conservative, whereas they haven't balanced a budget since 1956 under Ike.

    If they want my vote, then they need to be fiscally conservative for real and they have to come up with a real plan for balancing the budget with payback. The problem is they can do it without pissing someone off by cutting spending as well as sharing the wealth, which is against their own interests. It will take both, and neither is popular.

    I won't believe they are serious until they cut their own pay and benefits. If they all said, "I'm already a millionaire, so I'm going to relinquish my salary as a legislator, and also since I'm a millionaire, I'm going to forgo government provided health care at tax payer expense and buy my own insurance." But even though 50% of them are millionaires, I doubt we'll see them do it.

    As far as I'm concerned, both sides are exploiting the system, and using public money for personal gain. It is a predatory state which preys on its own people.

  5. #165
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Voters like Jeb and myself ARE the future of the party.

    I think you guys are going to have a hell of a time beating us.
    The jury is still out on Andrew Luck. He's talented, but can he be another Peyton Manning? He has some pretty big shoes to fill.

    Oh wait, you're talking about politics, not sports. My bad.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAJ View Post
    I was being a little sarcastic.

    Yet when I'm painfully forced to be in proximity to conservative media, such as Fox news or Rush, Hannity, Beck, I don't see any concern for facts or unbiased presentation.

    For example, the famous instance of Fox news omitting an entire sentence from something Obama said, running it together...deliberately misquoting him concerning "you didn't build that", and then printing it on t-shirts, buttons, and signs in front of businesses.

    It seems almost all of them believe the Fox version, without question.

    It's maddening.

    The same is true of history and interpretation of policy. For example, Romney keep saying during debates that he didn't want to go the way of Greece or Spain, with their high tax rates...but he omitted other countries with higher tax brackets that were successful. This is a lie of omission as well.

    So my skewed impression of Republican ignorance is based on numerous examples of this kind of behavior.

    On the other side, if you want to damage them, then play the whole quote. Republicans will damage themselves. The more they talk, the worse it is, so it's best not to edit what they say.

    I came around and Rush was trying to calculate some poor woman's sexual exploits based on her birth control expenses, mocking and joking, without any acknowledgement that women take birth control continuously and not just to prevent pregnancy. They take it for cramps or other reasons.

    Then you have Republicans talking about "legitimate rape" (i.e. if she got pregnant she was enjoying it), and rape as being "something God intended to happen."

    Then consider the 47% comment, which if you play the whole thing, Romney goes on to talk about using his wife as a political tool.

    It seems I'm saturated with media, and I'm actually pleased that you present such examples. That means that among the conservatives there may be a few people who are not mindless religious nuts or Fox news junkies.

    I should know better.

    Yet, to increase the double-sided irony, Republicans actually believe they are fiscally conservative, whereas they haven't balanced a budget since 1956 under Ike.

    If they want my vote, then they need to be fiscally conservative for real and they have to come up with a real plan for balancing the budget with payback. The problem is they can do it without pissing someone off by cutting spending as well as sharing the wealth, which is against their own interests. It will take both, and neither is popular.

    I won't believe they are serious until they cut their own pay and benefits. If they all said, "I'm already a millionaire, so I'm going to relinquish my salary as a legislator, and also since I'm a millionaire, I'm going to forgo government provided health care at tax payer expense and buy my own insurance." But even though 50% of them are millionaires, I doubt we'll see them do it.

    As far as I'm concerned, both sides are exploiting the system, and using public money for personal gain. It is a predatory state which preys on its own people.
    You should know better.

  7. #167
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    It seems the shift has already begun.

    This article is from the Head Editor at RedState (one of the most popular conservative news outlets there is):

    Is It Time to Roll Up the Welcome Mat Here?

    Barack Obama won the election.

    He did not win by stealing the election. Voter irregularities always happen. It is one reason we support voter ID rules. But even in the worse scenario of reports out there, there were not enough tales of voter irregularities to matter nationwide. This is another benefit and built in safeguard of the electoral college.

    Barack Obama won. He won by turning out the most people in a well run campaign. In other words, he won fair and square.

    We here at RedState are American citizens. We have no plans to secede from the union. If you do, good luck with that, but this is not the place for you.

    We have a place for you here if you wish to continue the fight against Republicans in Washington like John Boehner and Mitch McConnell who’d be happy to sell us down the river to keep their power, no matter how devoid of principle or sound policy. You have a place here if you’d like to keep fighting the Democrats who are intent on further stifling economic growth, pushing forward with Obamacare, bankrupting the nation, and siding with teachers unions against kids who deserve better.

    Too many people have spent the past four years obsessed with birth certificates. Now they are obsessed with voter fraud conspiracies, talk of secession, and supposed election changing news stories if only we had known.

    So let’s add dabblers in this latest nuttiness to birthers as a category of people we do not welcome at RedState. Our aim is to beat the Democrats, not beat a retreat to a Confederacy that Generals Grant and Sherman rent asunder well over a hundred years ago.

    Even here at RedState, while we may not much care for him, President Obama is still our President and we are still quite happily citizens of the United States. If we must drain this fever swamp that’s taken hold of a few people on the right over this past week before we can drain the swamp in Washington, so be it.

    All others need not apply.

    Sincerely,
    Erick Erickson
    Editor-in-Chief, RedState.com

  8. #168
    Senior Member BAJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    You should know better.
    I actually know many.

    I actually WAS conservative.

    Really.

    But then, when I was still a Christian, I realized Jesus was all about helping the poor and downtrodden. He healed the sick without charging them anything. In the book of Acts Christians sold all their possessions, and lived communally, with the church leaders distributing food and supplies.

    Actually the true Christian position would be to be liberal and communist. They would be for helping illegal Mexicans on the side of the road with free medical care.

    Yet, somehow the reality of Christianity has been warped, and the same people who preach against homosexuals using the Bible also ignore the portions advocating justice for the poor.

    And really, what many Republican "christians" call Christianity is a warped version. Ironically, I've spoken with conservatives who condemn the crusades as not being "real Christians", while supporting the current wars against the Arab nations.

    Sometimes I'd love to understand the conservative position. Your answer was very vague. You didn't answer about fiscal conservatism and coming up with a real plan.

    You didn't answer whether the religious right is a valid movement within the party. I mean these rape positive legislators didn't even loose Romney's endorsement.

    I guess if one were to convert me from being Libertarian into voting Republican, they'd have to follow that radio clip I posted, and reject all this backwards social policy...join the modern era.

    Then they'd have to come up with a real plan, and not say something stupid like they could give tax cuts, balance the deficit, increase military spending, and not cut any major program.

    Also, I heard or read some article that Romney never recovered from his "let Detroit go bankrupt" comment, which played very badly in the rust belt...including Ohio. Then they came up with some bullshit ad saying automobile jobs were going China due to Obama, which the companies condemned as a lie. The corporate executives debunked the lie. Wasn't that stupid...and shameful on the part of Republicans? It was ridiculously bad.

    So it seems they ran on a chameleon platform which flipped frequently, and churned out totality of lies. Then they made a vague plans, which fluctuating between condemning Obama's plans or praising them.

    When will the Republicans stop sucking and come up with a viable candidate? You got Perry forgetting the branches of government and Cain or somebody forgetting WTF Libia. The only reason they ended up with someone as bad as Romney is because the others were even worse.

    If you explained this already, fine. If not, please enjoy yourself, or just give cryptic, yoda-like, flippant replies.

  9. #169
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    Republicans lost the culture war

    (CNN) -- President Obama won the 2012 presidential election by accumulating some of the most one-sided electoral constituencies in modern political history.

    Looking at a breakdown of the 2012 election exit polling, Obama won the 18- to 29-year-old vote 60% to 37%, in spite of the fact that half of all recent college graduates are unemployed or underemployed.

    He won women by 11 points and unmarried women by an incredible 36 points. The marriage gap was far greater than the gender gap.

    Obama won African-Americans with 93% of the vote, virtually unchanged from the 95% he won in 2008.

    Latinos, one of the fastest growing demographics, went 71% to 27% in favor of Obama. And he won with Asians by a similarly enormous margin.

    Among those who make less than $50,000 a year, Obama won 60% to 38%.

    Mitt Romney, on the other hand, won white voters 59% to 39% and those making over $50,000 a year by 53% to 45%.

    This was the drumbeat of the Obama campaign. To women they said: Republicans are waging a "war on women," trying to outlaw abortion and contraception and would take them back to their rights in the 1950s. To minorities they said: Republicans are anti-government services, cold-blooded individualists, and cannot represent minority communities. To middle and low income Americans they said: Republicans are the party of the rich, who will slash taxes for only the richest Americans and cut social safety nets for the poor.

    Rather than offer a broad sweeping vision for the country, Democrats played identity politics. Republicans were the culprits, and women, young adults, black, Latinos, etc... were the victims. And voters believed it. Why? For the same reason this litany -- gender, race, ethnicity, class -- sound so familiar.

    Voters believed it, not because it was something new or groundbreaking, but because this has been the template of many of our character-building institutions -- our public schools, our colleges, and public universities -- for the past 50 years. Go to any major university in America and this is the mindset that is taught, preached, and ingested. It also gets an assist from television drama, from the movies, and from much of the mainstream media.

    For decades liberals have succeeded in defining the national discourse, the terms of discussion, and, therefore, the election, in these terms. They have successfully set the parameters and focus of the national and political dialogue as predominantly about gender, race, ethnicity, and class. This is the paradigm, the template through which many Americans, probably a majority, more or less view the world, our country, and the election. It is a divisive strategy and Democrats have targeted and exploited those divides.


    How else can we explain that more young people now favor socialism to capitalism?

    According to a Pew Research poll taken last year, 49% of Americans age 18-29 have a positive view of socialism while just 46% have a positive view of capitalism. Such a view has roots.

    So while we Republicans opine about election strategies and changing demographics, and appropriately so as that is our immediate order of business, in the long run we must address the problem at its source: the culture.

    Politics are downstream from the culture. Plato summarized the two most important questions in a society: Who teaches the young and what do we teach them?

    For the past 50 years liberals have had majority control of the character-forming institutions. If the national dialogue stays on their terms -- gender, race, ethnicity, class -- Republicans will continue to lose.

    We must counter the discourse and speak and educate in terms of family, faith, freedom, principle, values, work, country, community, improvement, growth, and equality of opportunity. No longer can the Republican Party be solely the party of business. Who controls the terms of discussion, dialogue, and education controls the country and, therefore, the election.

    It's time for Republicans to take it back. This will require much work and time, but there is no more important business.

  10. #170
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    If you aren't going to look at the world in terms of gender, race, ethnicity, and class, how are you looking at it? I've had my own gripes with identity politics in the past, though I really was griping about other identities detracting from class identity. In spite of my gripes, I conceded that the obstacles of identity politics were the necessary, negative by-product of the civil rights movement. The things that give us identity politics were also necessary for giving us civil rights. The time before liberals were dividing the country into gender, race, ethnicity, and class (well, they've always been dividing it into class) was those time when those demographics were denied and oppressed with impunity. No coincidence.

    Also, I have a comment on this.

    According to a Pew Research poll taken last year, 49% of Americans age 18-29 have a positive view of socialism while just 46% have a positive view of capitalism. Such a view has roots.
    My first explanation for that is probably a change of terminology rather than a change of philosophy. Over the past three decades, there's been an accelerating redefining process of the words socialism and capitalism. Socialism has become much more broad and capitalism has become much more narrow. The funny thing is, Democrats/liberals have had almost nothing to do with this except complying. It has been Republican conservatives that have attempted to defame everything they oppose, like progressive taxes and national health care, as socialist. It's Republican conservatives that have defined capitalism as a pure ideology with no wiggle room. So these younger people are simply being raised on the newer terminology. They're okay with socialism because they think it means taxing rich people more and providing public services, they don't like capitalism because they think it's some sort of free market fundamentalism.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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