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  1. #31
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  2. #32
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  3. #33
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    You really know nothing of what Hispanics care about if you think their #1 concern is immigration. With each generation Hispanics get further away from being being in contact with a first generation immigrant. In fact many Hispanics even in California want to deny social services to illegal immigrants. However, they are still overwhelmingly democratic especially Mexicans who comprise over 60% of Hispanics in America. One of the biggest concerns is lack of access to the higher education system because of a whole host of obstacles that impact Hispanic communities disproportionately. I think you're kidding yourself if you think religion is going to be a benefit to the Republican party because access to education and health services (that Republicans largely oppose) are also seen as -moral- issues.
    I never said their main issue is (illegal) immigration, I said changing the rhetoric (and some of the policies, such as variations of the Dream Act) surrounding the issue could move Hispanic support for Republicans toward the numbers enjoyed by GWB back in 2004-which would be about 40% (i.e. a mirror image of white support for Republicans, and a high enough level to ensure a substantial Republican majority)-by clear implication, I acknowledged that a majority of hispanics obviously care more strongly about other issues. Illegal immigration, however, has since become a major issue, and hispanic enthusiasm for Obama skyrocketed after two new policies regarding illegal immigration (Dream Act and not deporting illegal immigrants) were unvieled during the campaign season, so I think you're fooling yourself if you think illegal immigration policies are not a very large factor regarding the level and intensity of Obama's hispanic support this year. Incidentally, hispanic religion HAS benifited the Republican party in the recent past, before illegal immigration become such a high-profile issue-evangelical hispanics in particular were a major component of hispanic support for Bush. In any event, I was talking about long-term inter-marriage patterns when I mentioned religion.

    If you are going to accuse me of gross ignorance (something that certainly applies to me much of the time, the same as with anybody else), please base it on something I said, rather than something I clearly implied the exact opposite of.

  4. #34
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    ^ first female Hispanic governor in the US

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  6. #36
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  7. #37
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    So I don't understand why anglo saxon protestants would favour mormonism over catholicism.
    They're not favoring Mormonism as a religion, they're favoring the social and political culture surrounding it. Perhaps an anecdote from my childhood might illustrate; I was a middle-scooler living in Huntsville Alabama one year, and my family attended a Southern Baptist church. While in Sunday School (I guess they call it 'bible study' for children that age) one day, the youth pastors spent an hour explaining how Mormonism was a sham religion created (literally) as a result of demonic influence in order to trick good people into damning themselves (salvation through faith alone, ya know). The thing is, these same youth pastors specifically and repeatedly emphasized throughout the session that followers of Mormonism were 'morally beautiful people', who it was perfectly okay to befriend (but not date, as that implies later marriage and children who might be raised Mormon), whether they were amenable to conversion or not (though we were also encouraged to attempt the former).

    Evangelicals are, generally speaking, not going to simply reject a Mormon candidate who appears to reflect their earthly moral values in favor of a candidate that they believe opposes them, even if that second candidate's religious faith is (for salvation purposes) much closer to their own.

    As for the 'American Taliban', that's a term used by many people (mostly within the American left) who equate the religious right in America with Islamists (they often even claim to favor the latter over the former). A few people on this very thread* have done much the same thing, and an acceptance of such characterizations might lead someone to not understand why American evangelicals would favor a Mormon who they believe shares their earthly values and beliefs over a Catholic who they believe does not.

    *Edit: I apologize, I was thinking that I was replying within the 'who would non-Americans vote for' thread.

  8. #38
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    I love how this has become -only- about hispanics and politics. Wtf?
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Zarathustra, there are some black Republican politicians, too.



    I'm sure Republicans are trying to figure out to get Hispanics to become as pro-corporate power as the evangelicals. They'll probably try to use the religion angle somehow. Tying corporatism (masquerading as capitalism) to Christianity really was brilliant politics.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #40
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    I love how this has become -only- about hispanics and politics. Wtf?
    Hispanics are the largest minority in America, they will become larger in the future, they are not even remotely as politically monolithic as black Americans (the second largest minority), and Asians are far less numerous and much more culturally diverse; hispanics are therefore the most salient minority group to discuss regarding the changing politics of a more diverse America, especially regarding the future of the Republican party. I don't see what you seem to find objectionable about it.

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