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  1. #41
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I'd be a little bit concerned about creeper men pretending to be trans and exposing themselves to all the women in the room. But at the same time, I recognize that that would very rarely occur, were locker room policies changed to allow for trans use of locker rooms -- wouldn't be much more likely to happen, than it currently is.
    That's kind of the thing -- despite all the fears of "fake trans rapists" in the bathrooms, at least as of a few years ago, there wasn't a documented case in elections where that kind of fear was being touted. It goes against the mentality of the potential offender. Guys likely to be accused of sex crimes don't typically like to tarnish that image by dressing as and pretending to be women; they're trying to improve/validate their image as men, which dressing as women doesn't really do.

    Kind of like the fear of people pretending to be gay for the marriage benefits -- which is not something I worry about, but does sound a bit similar to the locker room worry I just mentioned.
    Yeah, it's a crazy enough idea that they even made a movie about it, to make fun of it and how the guys really weren't into it. That's the whole premise.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  2. #42
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    That's kind of the thing -- despite all the fears of "fake trans rapists" in the bathrooms, at least as of a few years ago, there wasn't a documented case in elections where that kind of fear was being touted. It goes against the mentality of the potential offender. Guys likely to be accused of sex crimes don't typically like to tarnish that image by dressing as and pretending to be women; they're trying to improve/validate their image as men, which dressing as women doesn't really do.
    Huh. Very, very interesting. I hadn't thought about that, but I suppose it makes sense, from the sex offender's perspective.
    Yeah, it's a crazy enough idea that they even made a movie about it, to make fun of it and how the guys really weren't into it. That's the whole premise.
    I remember seeing posters for that. Was that "I Now Pronounce You Chuck And Larry"? I never bothered to watch it or to read about what happens, but it sounds like it was kind of a message movie, in that regard? Playing into that fear and exposing it for what it is (namely: bullshit illogical and highly unlikely)?
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  3. #43
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    I would just like to state that I am continually disgusted by people sitting around naked in the locker room at the gym. Ugh. On the benches... and chairs... and leaning against the lockers. It's like, you just had some sweaty workout and now you are rubbing your butt juices everywhere. PASS.

  4. #44
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Wow, I'm really surprised she'd do that. Trying to educate people maybe? Or fishing for a discrimination lawsuit? It isn't even like changing in a locker room where the wangitalia is there for a moment then whisked away. It's hanging out and proud, getting its sweat on. I guess some transgenders decide against surgery though, so they can't just bide their time.

    I don't feel equipped to answer this question, because I haven't encountered public nudity since boarding school (communal showers). There really aren't a lot of situations in Australia where public nudity takes place, so it's almost never appropriate. Even my experience at boarding school was quite unusual -- most high schools don't have showers in the locker rooms. If you get sweaty from sport then you stay sweaty for the rest of the day. Because of this we're culturally more prudish about nudity than Americans. I've certainly never encountered a sauna where nudity was ok. Everyone wears bathers/trunks in there. I don't see why that's a problem. How does nudity enhance the experience?

  5. #45
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    Wow, I'm really surprised she'd do that. Trying to educate people maybe? Or fishing for a discrimination lawsuit? It isn't even like changing in a locker room where the wangitalia is there for a moment then whisked away. It's hanging out and proud, getting its sweat on. I guess some transgenders decide against surgery though, so they can't just bide their time.
    She is 45 years old, which is in between Gen X and Boomers. Typically I have only seen this kind of behavior in baby boomer transgenders, there was kind of a social cluelessness that seemed to dominate in many of the M2Fs... lack of social empathy. So it would be like, "I have an F on my license / am living full-time, so therefore everything is okay for me to do just like other women," without considering nuances or how others might feel to a particular course of action.

    I don't know anything about this person at all, though.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #46
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    She is 45 years old, which is in between Gen X and Boomers. Typically I have only seen this kind of behavior in baby boomer transgenders, there was kind of a social cluelessness that seemed to dominate in many of the M2Fs... lack of social empathy. So it would be like, "I have an F on my license / am living full-time, so therefore everything is okay for me to do just like other women," without considering nuances or how others might feel to a particular course of action.
    It's hard to see how this could be simple cluelessness. It's not hard to wrap a towel around you, and not at all inappropriate to do so from what I gather about American sauna culture. A penis in a female sauna is always going to stand out provoke reactions. So it seems to me she just didn't care about the reactions she had to have known were coming, or possibly even wanted to provoke them.

  7. #47
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure I have five thousand and one OTHER reasons to avoid locker rooms that would precede this one in importance. The top ten having something to do with bacteria, parasites, smell, and just...eww. Some lady's wang is hardly top priority.
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    It's hard to see how this could be simple cluelessness. It's not hard to wrap a towel around you, and not at all inappropriate to do so from what I gather about American sauna culture. A penis in a female sauna is always going to stand out provoke reactions. So it seems to me she just didn't care about the reactions she had to have known were coming, or possibly even wanted to provoke them.
    I guess you have to have hung up with some of these people to get what I'm saying, or seen a few particular documentaries. I was kind of amazed at how socially clueless/in their own world they were. But like I said, I have no idea about this person, and they're not really up in the Boomer crowd. If it were a Gen Y, having hung out with Gen Y transpeople, I'd say it would have been far more likely to be a rebellious / screw everyone else maneuver. There is just a different mentality there.

    I think one of the incidents was a sauna. I'm pretty sure the incidents involving young children had to do with changing clothes in the public area of the locker room, though.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #49
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I think one of the incidents was a sauna. I'm pretty sure the incidents involving young children had to do with changing clothes in the public area of the locker room, though.
    Ah, well it's far more understandable to me why she'd do that. Where else is she going to change? I guess they could have changing stalls. I think all the Aussie female changerooms have individual stalls for showers, which serve as changing stalls. Male changerooms are more likely to not have individual stalls for some reason, which would make it trickier for a f2m transgender.

    I know one of my friends in high-school used to change into his gym gear in the disabled toilet stall. He turned out to be gay, though I don't know if that had anything to do with it. I don't recall him being ridiculed about his need for privacy, but obviously it was different enough as to be memorable. Particularly since the closest most of us came to nudity was underwear. But I guess behaving memorably or abnormally is the opposite of what transgenders want. They just want to be a regular member of their gender and forget that they were ever anything else.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    Ah, well it's far more understandable to me why she'd do that. Where else is she going to change? I guess they could have changing stalls. I think all the Aussie female changerooms have individual stalls for showers, which serve as changing stalls. Male changerooms are more likely to not have individual stalls for some reason, which would make it trickier for a f2m transgender.
    Yes, in terms of practical importance, I think this is the most salient point in favor of "fucking let it be."
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