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  1. #51
    WALMART
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Many people do care to know if major mistakes were made, and whether there was an attempt to cover up said mistakes to avoid political fallout....I would also hazard to guess that more people care about the issue than ever cared about 'Big Bird' or 'binders full of women.'

    I understand. It will be an interesting piece of history to study.

  2. #52
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    We've had three presidents who were businessmen, Herbert Hoover, Bush I, and Bush II. I don't think it's a coincidence that the two worst economic catastrophes in US history happened under the watch of "businessmen". They project their own personal interests to the entire economy. Romney is also a businessman.

    The job of POTUS is NOTHING like being a CEO. American voters need to realize this.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #53
    Senior Member BAJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    We've had three presidents who were businessmen, Herbert Hoover, Bush I, and Bush II. I don't think it's a coincidence that the two worst economic catastrophes in US history happened under the watch of "businessmen". They project their own personal interests to the entire economy. Romney is also a businessman.

    The job of POTUS is NOTHING like being a CEO. American voters need to realize this.


    I like this one.

    Former...up until a few weeks ago...one may characterize me as Romney's 47%...except that I pay taxes. I believe proper representation of my interest to be free cradle to grave medical care for all, and various Liberal utopia positions.

    However, i also read economics and history, and I do not believe my interests will be represented by the government. Most meds at Wal-Mart cost $10 for 90 days meds, which I think is a step in the right direction.

    So I come to believe business for business, and government for other things. Which, I came to this position very recently.

    Bush 1 had the S&L crisis. Bush 2 had the terrorist bombings and collapse of the economy. Yet during Bush, the income growth increased dramatically for the upper 1%. So suddenly Romney is not going to benefit the rich above all? He's already said he'd abolish the Capital Gains tax, meaning his taxes will go from "less than most of us" to "nothing." i think that's his whole purpose for running.

    There's no way Romney can do everything he promised, so they have been evasive even when they were still talking to the press.

  4. #54
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAJ View Post
    We could always go back to "the good old days" under the Republicans, where there were lots of attacks as well.
    Were the attacks you linked, and their damages, possibly made worse by a lack of basic security and immediate response decisions by the Bush administration? Did the Bush administration spend weeks repeatedly portraying them as something other than terrorist attacks? And if so, did most of the media essentially ignore the story? If the answer is no, then its irrelevent to my point.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAJ View Post
    I believe proper representation of my interest to be free cradle to grave medical care for all, and various Liberal utopia positions.
    And how do you plan on funding this utopia?

  6. #56
    Senior Member BAJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Were the attacks you linked, and their damages, possibly made worse by a lack of basic security and immediate response decisions by the Bush administration? Did the Bush administration spend weeks repeatedly portraying them as something other than terrorist attacks? And if so, did most of the media essentially ignore the story? If the answer is no, then its irrelevent to my point.
    Well, certainly. Obviously. Bush had repeated attacks...multiple attacks with mortality higher than Benghazi. If Obama is responsible for his, then Bush is responsible for his, via the same logic.

    I've seen way more photos of the Bush family shaking hands with the Saudis than Obama. Both the Saudis, including the bin Laden family, and the Bush family are heavily invested in the US military industrial complex, so it follows logically that they support both an expansion of terrorism and an expansion of war, no matter they say.

    It is simply a fact that there was more terrorism under Bush than Obama, and Bush was unable to get Osama bin Laden.

    So Obama is portrayed as a Muslim sympathizer under Fox news, but really, he had less terrorism under his watch...killed just as much Al Qaeda, which Romney praised him for during the debate.

  7. #57
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    And how do you plan on funding this utopia?
    Tax increases and cuts to the defense budget, probably.

    But instead of getting answers from anyone here, you could just investigate Canada, France, Germany, Japan, Australia, etc...
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Tax increases and cuts to the defense budget, probably.

    But instead of getting answers from anyone here, you could just investigate Canada, France, Germany, Japan, Australia, etc...
    Is Canada expected to calm interstate disputes between China and Taiwan by moving a carrier to South East Asia?

    Is Germany expected to maintain clear shipping lanes in the Suez when Somali pirates play pin the tail on the donkey with oil takers?

    Why continue to tax to fund a system that is slated to drain us dry in the long haul? And make no mistake, these taxes will have to come from the middle class all the way down to the poverty line, that's where the money is.

    Without changes to our entitlement system any other changes wont matter because unchanged entitlement spending will still eventually swallow our budget.

  9. #59
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Is Canada expected to calm interstate disputes between China and Taiwan by moving a carrier to South East Asia?

    Is Germany expected to maintain clear shipping lanes in the Suez when Somali pirates play pin the tail on the donkey with oil takers?
    This is obviously an elaborate discussion all to itself, but I'm not particularly crazy about America being the world's police at this point. We probably can't pull out the carpet all at once, but I'd say it's actually in our own best interest to try turning world order into a more multilateral affair.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Why continue to tax to fund a system that is slated to drain us dry in the long haul? And make no mistake, these taxes will have to come from the middle class all the way down to the poverty line, that's where the money is.
    We can get a pretty huge amount of money out of the rich alone, and I favor a progressive tax where the bulk of it goes there. But I am willing to except increased taxes on the middle class to pay for this particular program. It's a good return.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Without changes to our entitlement system any other changes wont matter because unchanged entitlement spending will still eventually swallow our budget.
    Replacing medicaid and medicare with a typical first world national health system is a change to the entitlement system, one that would probably cut our health care expenditures in half.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    This is obviously an elaborate discussion all to itself, but I'm not particularly crazy about America being the world's police at this point. We probably can't pull out the carpet all at once, but I'd say it's actually in our own best interest to try turning world order into a more multilateral affair.
    Don't ever run for secretary of state.

    We can get a pretty huge amount of money out of the rich alone, and I favor a progressive tax where the bulk of it goes there. But I am willing to except increased taxes on the middle class to pay for this particular program. It's a good return.
    What's huge in relation to the amount we need to pay down our debt, or are you just assuming?

    Replacing medicaid and medicare with a typical first world national health system is a change to the entitlement system, one that would probably cut our health care expenditures in half.
    Just that simple huh.

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