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View Poll Results: Non-Americans, who would you vote for?

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  • Romney

    1 3.23%
  • Obama

    30 96.77%
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  1. #51
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typoz View Post
    Well asked an American who's in my contacts. Said it's good for the poor people.
    One big issue is that many insurance companies here refuse to cover preexisting conditions. ACA says that they can't turn someone away if they have a preexisting condition. However, this would probably put insurance companies out of business (if they're doing large payouts for preexisting conditions) because with that clause people would only then buy insurance when they were sick, and if they were healthy they would not want to pay premiums... it would be mostly outflow, and little inflow for the insurance companies. So ACA also requires everyone to have health insurance coverage.

    I think for some people at least some portion of the coverage can be subsidized but I haven't read much about the plan lately. The above point was just one of the larger points that leaped out to me.

    Last I heard, Romney and Co wanted to remove the parts that mandate people get coverage, which are the parts that make it work. Maybe someone who is against ACA wants to explain better what Romney's goals would be there, at first glance that kind of approach didn't make sense to me especially since he implemented some similar concept in MA.
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  2. #52
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    @Jennifer Doesn't make sense to me either then. Appreciate a more in-depth explanation.

  3. #53
    Senior Member captain curmudgeon's Avatar
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    @ReadingRainbows insists upon skewing the results of this thread by voting in it despite the fact that she is, in fact, American. The results have thus been hopelessly skewed; 14-0 is a completely different result than 15-0.
    Jarlaxle: fact checking this thread makes me want to go all INFP on my wrists

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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Crap. That's scary. When will you people learn to separate Church and State?
    When indeed. It is a strongly Christian country in the same way countries in the Middle East as Islamic and yet the comparisons is not taken well.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelchairdoug View Post
    @ReadingRainbows insists upon skewing the results of this thread by voting in it despite the fact that she is, in fact, American. The results have thus been hopelessly skewed; 14-0 is a completely different result than 15-0.
    Gasp... the poll... how shocking!
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  6. #56
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    I'm definitely for Obama and the Democrats, but I don't totally despise Romney. By that I mean, he's not as terrible as most Republican candidates (seriously they're so extreme!), but I would still never vote for him. I find America's politics to be pretty alien, because it's so right leaning and concerned about issues that have been dead and buried here for 40 years. NZ is a left-leaning nation and our governing centre-right party is probably closer to the Democrats (and I'm way more of a lefty than that).

    I have nothing against moderate Republicans, but man, the extreme fraction is really bringing the US down IMO. Moderates I can disagree with, but the hardcore conservatives are just insane. How can there be any meaningful discourse or progress made with such people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Wow.

    I would beg to differ on that, until you start living in our economy directly, have to pay our taxes, have to deal with our civil rights issues, have to live under our health care system, and whatever else you happen to be ignoring in your particular statement.

    (I mean, I understand what your'e saying in that no country is isolated any more and the US has its hand in many different pies, but you do not live directly within its jurisidiction. Would you want the US voting on who your political leaders should be?)
    Of course you're right in this, but we do still feel like we have a stake in it - the degree with which we do have an actual stake is disputable. I don't think I personally experience too many direct effects from America's political decisions but it affects me emotionally - I can't help but care, just as I care about what goes on everywhere else. I just feel more strongly about it because America feels like our leader (whether we like it or not) and we depend on them for change and development; politically, environmentally and culturally etc. We've been raised to care (and worry about) what America does.

    So forgive us if we seem all nosey and demanding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Well, we have a pretty big country, in terms of geography and population. Not as big as India or China, but big enough -- and on one side we have Canada and the other Mexico, which are not really big/influential enough to challenge our cultural mentality. We're kind of isolated from the rest of the world in that sense. It was a huge deal here in conservative culture with the influx of Asian/Eastern ideas in the 70's.... I can tell you the religious world was in an uproar about all the evils of that. Despite being a melting pot, in some ways we've become very xenophobic I think, even before 9/11 happened. If we were in the middle of Europe where there seems to be much more inflow of ideas, so that everyone is used to different countries and different viewpoints, maybe that would have helped us be more at ease and open.
    I don't entirely blame America for being insular. It's such a huge country with a large population that it's easy to end up like that. If you look at the Chinese and Indians, they are also extremely insular, especially in terms of culture. My Chinese friend has lived here in NZ for 10 years and she's still learning about things she missed out on when she was growing up. She'll be totally oblivious about a song that everyone knows or a film that was insanely popular. It's very strange explaining it to her.

    However, I do think America takes it too far. An American friend of mine tells me how frustrated she is at how little is in the news and newspapers about world events - she says even the NYTimes is terrible in this regard. As someone who has lived overseas on and off for years, she's really uncomfortable about how cut off she is from the rest of the world. And I do think the media and education system play a strong role in America's isolation. If you're actively discouraged from opening yourself up to the rest of the world and perhaps even denied knowledge of it, it's not surprising people would end up like that. There's only so much you can expect the average citizen to resist what they've been raised with and become accustomed to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Maybe he should have tackled education before healthcare?
    But honestly, how literate do you need to be? Isn't universal access to healthcare that doesn't cripple the poor financially for the rest of their lives, like, the definition of a no-brainer?
    I know. The level of resistance baffles me.

    I don't think this is a question of geographic isolation - just look at a place like New Zealand - doesn't get more isolated than that. Yet they are culturally very open and progressive.
    I don't think this is the same. Geographic isolation doesn't mean much today. But to be fair, from what I gather, we haven't felt isolated for 50+ years - the world feels closer to us than it really is. And, we're so small and insignificant on the world's stage, that we actually look outwardly much more than most nations. We're forced to feel more like citizens of the world. I believe we actually have the 2nd highest percentage of population living overseas (it may be as much as 1/5th!).

    Anyway, we have to involve ourselves in the world or else our news would be only 10 minutes long - that or they'd be forced to start covering cats being rescued from trees.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Well, I think a lot of the people that talk about "America being the greatest" actually believe it. I think it's kind of a naive approach, there are some strong benefits to living in this country as compared to some other countries in the world, and yet we have our own set of unique problems in part even because of those strengths. It's similar elsewhere as well, to varying levels.
    I think this definitely a source of the problem. I think Americans are so neurotic about patriotism. There seems to be pressure to love your country without any qualms or qualification and proclaim it to be the perfect and faultless, or else you are seen as a traitor. It's rather bizarre to me how much American politicians have to rave on about how much they love America and how wonderful it is. Even then, a lot of the criticisms you hear about one politician or another, is that they're "secretly trying to bring America down".

    I think if kids were taught that it can be just as patriotic to criticise your country and to aspire for it to be better, the US would be more open to new ideas and influences. Nothing stalls progress like a, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality.

    I also think we need to get used to the idea that we are no longer rising and developing in our life cycle -- we're kind of done with the wild growth phase in terms of economy and prestige and eventually we'll be on a decline if we're not already. Nations are organisms that way. Perhaps it can cycle back around, but it's just how the process works. And because of that, we'd better find other ways to interact with the rest of the world since just barreling through as if we own the place is only going to get harder and less effective. The big tough influential guy at the international pub has to find a different way to interact once he gets older.
    Yeah, this is a good observation. I get the impression that the average American believes that things were going along fine until recently; that the US has just stalled temporarily, and if you can just get things back to how they were before (of course with different interpretations of which "before"), things will get better. I think the uncertainty of a post-Cold War/post-9/11/post-Iraq War world has been pretty hard for Americans. It has eroded the very foundations of what they believe in and how they see their country. They're not sure which direction to go or even how to define themselves any more. And while many other countries are moving ahead in new directions, the US is struggling to make that next step into the unknown.

    I do really hope they do make those steps and find their feet again - or they may be in danger of being left behind.
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  7. #57
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    whoa, 17x0.

    *inb4 party pooper*

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Government is inherently evil, so even its helping hand must be cut off.
    Yeah. This is another big one- in addition to the inability to separate church from state, there’s an irrational fear of ‘big government’. It doesn’t take much to poke that fear.

    Someone should write a book on that. I wonder how that started.
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  9. #59
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelchairdoug View Post
    @ReadingRainbows insists upon skewing the results of this thread by voting in it despite the fact that she is, in fact, American. The results have thus been hopelessly skewed; 14-0 is a completely different result than 15-0.
    @strawberries tells me that if she had to vote for one of them, gun to her head, she'd vote for Obama. Since we Australians are routinely forced to vote I think you can take that as a legit substitute for rainbows' tainted vote.

  10. #60
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    I wish you people could vote in our elections...

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