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View Poll Results: Non-Americans, who would you vote for?

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  • Romney

    1 3.23%
  • Obama

    30 96.77%
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  1. #161
    Xena's boyfriend Bardsandwarriors's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post

    (green=free states, red=slave states, brown="territories open to slavery")
    I like this one -



    -------Lots of mountains ^^^ ------------------------------ Not many mountains ^^^

    Top = cold
    Bottom = hot

    I can see a pattern....

    fattest-states-2011-big.jpg
    Small version ^^^ to make americans look thinner
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  2. #162
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Coincidentally, I've been thinking about this recently too. More specifically, that it might have been better for everyone if Lincoln had failed to "unite" north and south. Also, it's kinda funny that many of the most fiercely patriotic/crazy states are the self-same ones that broke away to form the confederacy.
    My history teacher taught me that the South were cozying up to France before Abe made the war about slavery with the emancipation proclamation (2 years after the outbreak of hostilities). After that France was bound by its post-revolution values not to overtly side with the pro-slavery faction (which is probably the main reason why, my teacher speculated, the EP was made in the first place). So if Abe had failed to unite north and south maybe the south would've been exposed to far more french influence? Maybe they would've become more European than the north?

    If that were the case and my history teacher wasn't just talking bollocks, how would that have affected WW1? Would the Confederacy have leapt to France's defense, and the North abstained because of it? Would neither nation have gotten involved for fear of invasion at home? Would WW1 have been won by the Germans and would WW2 (and Nazism) never have occurred?

    It'd make an interesting premise for alternative-universe fiction. More interesting, admittedly, if it were sourced beyond the recollected opinions of a high-school history teacher. I suspect though that if an American were to try their hand at such a premise then slavery would be the main character and a good chunk of the supporting cast.

  3. #163
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bardsandwarriors View Post
    I like this one -



    -------Lots of mountains ^^^ ------------------------------ Not many mountains ^^^

    Top = cold
    Bottom = hot

    I can see a pattern....

    fattest-states-2011-big.jpg
    Small version ^^^ to make americans look thinner
    I've just been Ne dommed. Safeword!

  4. #164
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    My history teacher taught me that the South were cozying up to France before Abe made the war about slavery with the emancipation proclamation (2 years after the outbreak of hostilities). After that France was bound by its post-revolution values not to overtly side with the pro-slavery faction (which is probably the main reason why, my teacher speculated, the EP was made in the first place). So if Abe had failed to unite north and south maybe the south would've been exposed to far more french influence? Maybe they would've become more European than the north?
    A classic hypothesis no doubt, but also a controversial one which I question. European nations didn't have particularly good reason to side with the South anyhow. The Confederates were counting on the notion that "cotton is king", but there wasn't much evidence for that to be true. Economically, France would have stood to lose a lot more commerce from Union hostilities than Confederate hostilities. Combine that with the fact that most people had been expecting the Union to win the whole time, and that staying neutral was a hell of a lot better than war with the Union (and fuck, possibly even Canada), I think the Confederates were going for a stretch there.

    On the other end, the Union had more than one reason to enact the emancipation proclamation. For one thing, the slave population of the south was enormous, and before the proclamation slaves were already crossing the borders to assist Union armies. It became apparent that the proclamation would enlist much of the Confederacy's population against itself, which is a strategic maneuver too good to resist. You also can't discount how powerful sincere abolitionists were in the north by this point.
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  5. #165
    Xena's boyfriend Bardsandwarriors's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    I've just been Ne dommed. Safeword!
    I have so much to learn here
    Status: was , then , now
    Neutral good Fi-ENFp 4w3 sp/so 479 gentle spirit, 50yo male. Travels the land seeking a good sig line.

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