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View Poll Results: Non-Americans, who would you vote for?

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31. You may not vote on this poll
  • Romney

    1 3.23%
  • Obama

    30 96.77%
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Results 151 to 160 of 165

  1. #151
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Perhaps a lot of Americans have some sort of blanket stereotype of Europeans, too? Not sure...
    Those filthy eoropeans and their depraved lifestylies, how dare they judge us.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
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  2. #152
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    Those filthy eoropeans and their depraved lifestylies, how dare they judge us.
    Yes, actually, if you change that to "those filthy commie Europeans with their immoral health care...", I guess that would be the closest thing to the blanket stereotype!
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  3. #153
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    I'm just trying to understand why the trend seems to be towards more crazy rather than less (which I think we'd all be in favour of). And can only assume one group's paranoia feeds the other's - in a kind of paranoia arms race. But then I'm remembering McCarthy et al... Maybe it's not all that new, it's just less self-confident/coherent?
    I know you didn't ask this of me, so I hope you'll excuse my intrusion. The fissure point for militant Islam came on the heels of Sayyid al Qutb's blanket condemnation of American culture as virulent and contrary to the central teachings of his interpretation of Islam after living stateside for about 2 years (it didn't help that Israel came into national existence right around that time as well). His solution to secularism and efforts to create parity in women's rights was a hostile re-examination of his core beliefs culminating in the resurrection of the modern-era version of the jihadist and martyrdom as a glorious response to the unwilling who chose to dwell in Jahiliyyah as opposed to embracing his beliefs. Given his influence (and the obvious disparities in quality of lifestyle between Western culture and his own), many flocked to his side and would eventually inspire individuals like bin Laden and Ayman al Zawahiri.

    The rest, as they say, is history.

  4. #154
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    I know you didn't ask this of me, so I hope you'll excuse my intrusion. The fissure point for militant Islam came on the heels of Sayyid al Qutb's blanket condemnation of American culture as virulent and contrary to the central teachings of his interpretation of Islam after living stateside for about 2 years (it didn't help that Israel came into national existence right around that time as well). His solution to secularism and efforts to create parity in women's rights was a hostile re-examination of his core beliefs culminating in the resurrection of the modern-era version of the jihadist and martyrdom as a glorious response to the unwilling who chose to dwell in Jahiliyyah as opposed to embracing his beliefs. Given his influence (and the obvious disparities in quality of lifestyle between Western culture and his own), many flocked to his side and would eventually inspire individuals like bin Laden and Ayman al Zawahiri.

    The rest, as they say, is history.
    Quote Originally Posted by wiki
    On his return to Egypt, Qutb published an article entitled "The America that I Have Seen." He was critical of many things he had observed in the United States: its materialism, individual freedoms, economic system, racism, brutal boxing matches, "poor" haircuts,[4] superficiality in conversations and friendships,[22] restrictions on divorce, enthusiasm for sports, lack of artistic feeling,[22] "animal-like" mixing of the sexes (which "went on even in churches"),[23] and strong support for the new Israeli state.[24]
    "Poor haircuts". LOL. And people took this guy seriously??
    The thing is, being open to criticism is a feature of healthy democracies. Some of that criticism might even be legitimate. Why get so upset about any suggestion that not everything in the land of stars and stripes is perfect? What will happen if people stop believing that....?

    People who hate "Western values" don't hate America exclusively (or even, one might argue, primarily). In Europe, we've had our share of terrorist attacks - but our response has not been a hard swing to the right or fanatical patriotism. What is it about America that makes it so...sensitive to haters? Bigger egos more prone to bruising?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
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  5. #155
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    ...People who hate "Western values" don't hate America exclusively (or even, one might argue, primarily). In Europe, we've had our share of terrorist attacks - but our response has not been a hard swing to the right or fanatical patriotism. What is it about America that makes it so...sensitive to haters? Bigger egos more prone to bruising?
    American does have the cowboy archetype with its history of glorifying the domination of Native Americans. I suspect volumes could be written comparing America's past and present in terms of its concept of security, entitlement, and terrorism.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
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    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
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  6. #156
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    People say, "How can the common working man keep voting for Romney / the Republican Party? How can people see the Republican Party as something other than the Party of the Rich?" People who say probably aren't familiar with conservative U.S. cultural areas.

    The Republican Party is seen as the party not of the rich, but of the common hard-working Christian man, who has values just like his. With that trust in ethos, the party gains ground spreading the economic philosophy to those voters. The Democratic Party, in contrast, is seen as the party of the intellectual urban elite, snobbish, internationalized, seems like a whole other world to the I-live-in-a-quiet-rural/suburban-spot-with-familiar-neighbors conservative voters.

    There's the welfare issue that starts there...people in the cities depending hard on welfare, whereas conservative rural types seeing it as a shameful thing to admit that you need financial assistance from the government. (not that anybody enjoys being poor, but...) People in other countries are aware of the "free-rider" problem of public welfare systems, and say it's a small footnote. Here, because of the values, I would say it's a huge obstacle. Americans seem to not like people who think they don't have to follow the same rules as you and me.

    From there, the right-wing economic thing builds on its foundation, and the modern widespread use of media makes this so much easier: To spread the ideology to the public that they need to spread, it gives each conservative a political testament to follow, a narrative of seeing the world.

    I urge people to come visit the U.S. to see it for yourself. Not so that I can convince you to an American viewpoint, but just so that you can see how it makes a little more sense.

    (These are my personal thoughts and observations. I don't speak definitively for anyone else.)

    ---

    Why did so many people vote for Romney this election? It was not because they support Romney, it was because they hate Obama. But it's more than that, really. Deep down, it's that they hate and fear what Obama stands for. I believe from what I see and hear every day that the main concern conservatives in the U.S. have against Obama, the Democratic Party, Europeans, universal healthcare, etc. is the fear that this will lead to a slippery slope going off the left-end of the political cliff. It's a Slippery Slope Argument in its purest form. "Obama is Communist" is the mental outcome of the actual suspicion that Obama will start to pull American policies slowly more to the left than they've been, or than the American center is. Now just stretch that all the way down the hall to its political conclusion....yes, all the way...and that's where people get this stuff.
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  7. #157
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Government is inherently evil, so even its helping hand must be cut off.
    I've been thinking a bit about this, and wonder how much of it is the fact that their government made war on them twice during their formative years? First the war of independence, then the civil war. The civil war especially seems to line up with republican/democrat leanings. The formerly confederate states tend to vote Republican (latino influence aside) knowing as they do what it's like to have your government invade you.

    (green=free states, red=slave states, brown="territories open to slavery")

    I realize that when people are involved it's never that simple, but I wonder how much of a part it's played in their fear of big government?
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  8. #158
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Yet Obama got reelected, a few states passed laws allowing same-sex marriage by popular vote, and two states legalized marijuana. The hey-day of the fundies is over.
    It is not only the fundies.

  9. #159
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    I've been thinking a bit about this, and wonder how much of it is the fact that their government made war on them twice during their formative years? First the war of independence, then the civil war. The civil war especially seems to line up with republican/democrat leanings. The formerly confederate states tend to vote Republican (latino influence aside) knowing as they do what it's like to have your government invade you.

    I realize that when people are involved it's never that simple, but I wonder how much of a part it's played in their fear of big government?
    Coincidentally, I've been thinking about this recently too. More specifically, that it might have been better for everyone if Lincoln had failed to "unite" north and south. Also, it's kinda funny that many of the most fiercely patriotic/crazy states are the self-same ones that broke away to form the confederacy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  10. #160
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Bush was not altogether wrong.
    He said: Give citizenship to illegal immigrants.

    An advice to the legislative council is not a promise.
    The Hispanics interpreted it as such.

    Lyndon Johnson did not advise the legislative council.
    He owned it.

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