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  1. #61
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Greece says hello.


    So do Canada, Australia, Germany, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark.

    And Iceland.

    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    So do Canada, Australia, Germany, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark.

    And Iceland.

    As do Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Cyprus, Italy, the UK and France.

  3. #63
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    You kiss you mother with that mouth?
    Yep, she´s proud of me for shutting down bullshitters.

    As predicted, this debate is turning into the "pathetic" realm.

    As do Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Cyprus, Italy, the UK and France.
    The US is much richer than all these countries, and richer than Germany, Canada, Sweden and Denmark aswell.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Greece says hello.

    To play "devils advocate" (no pun on your avatar intended):

    Many mainstream economists consider that Greece's primary problem was inability to control its own money-supply during a recession, leading to a recession, and that the US would be in a comparable situation had it over the past 4 years followed the same restrictive monetary policy and pro-cyclical cuts which were imposed on Greece by the EU.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Yep, she´s proud of me for shutting down bullshitters.

    As predicted, this debate is turning into the "pathetic" realm.



    The US is much richer than all these countries, and richer than Germany, Canada, Sweden and Denmark aswell.
    And their financial burdens are much lower.

    I fail to see how I've done any bullshitting here.

    Although your dander does seem to be up.

  6. #66
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    And their financial burdens are much lower.
    Doubtfully, Germany has a very high level of debt - around 90 of GDP - and doesn´t even possess a sovereign monetary system. Nor does Finland.

    It´s not a system that I necessarly admire but some parts of it (i.e. healthcare) would be rather easy (and cheaper) to implement.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Doubtfully, Germany has a very high level of debt - around 90 of GDP - and doesn´t even possess a sovereign monetary system. Nor does Finland.

    It´s not a system that I necessarly admire but some parts of it (i.e. healthcare) would be rather easy (and cheaper) to implement.
    Yes because the world expects Germany to maintain a Navy capable of global force projection.

  8. #68
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Yes because the world expects Germany to maintain a Navy capable of global force projection.
    Strawman argument.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Strawman argument.
    Well then explain how Germany's military budget requirements are comparable to the US on a per capita basis?

    You can't.

    Yes a larger country may have a larger GDP, but they also have larger expenses, especially when the federal bureaucracy looks like ours.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    How much help the state should provide to the people isn't even the question.
    Sure it is. The real question is ... at what point do the benefits of so-called "entitlements" outweigh the costs? Without a safety net of any kind, you have undesirable social outcomes. Everything from elderly people dying on the streets to younger unemployed rioting for financial equality to increase in crime etc etc. So, how much help is indeed completely relevant.

    The piece is an argument that federal entitlement spending has expanded beyond its stated goal of assisting the poor, and then proposes reasonable limits to the qualifications for the programs that would bring their levels of spending back in line with their stated goal.
    But how do we measure these goals? What constitutes success? Your article shows a way to trim but fails to illustrate potential social fallout from that reform.

    But for your sake, my argument is that we should limit the beneficiaries of entitlement programs to those at or below 130% of the federally designated poverty level (for non disabled persons) and possibly 110% of that level.
    Thanks for the clarity, but have you ever lived at the income level of the so-called "poverty line"? You'd hardly feel like the benefits you receive are "entitlements" ... you'd feel utterly thankful for the small amount of help they afford you.

    You can argue that the US can't afford these programs all you like ... but I ask, can the US afford to not have these programs in place? Really?

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Yes because the world expects Germany to maintain a Navy capable of global force projection.
    The US continually makes choices to secure their own interests. Did the world expect the US to do this?
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

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