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View Poll Results: How will the popular vote and electoral college be split?

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  • Obama wins both.

    17 54.84%
  • Romney wins both.

    2 6.45%
  • Obama wins the electoral college and Romney wins the popular vote.

    11 35.48%
  • Romney wins the electoral college and Obama wins the popular vote.

    1 3.23%
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  1. #401
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    This is basically the most negative way of looking at what ought to be a good thing. Any situation where technology makes laborers obsolete altogether should be a situation in which we can afford being extremely generous in terms of social welfare. The short answer is that we would be in a world where people could happily live without being salary workers.
    If getting what you want without effort lead to fulfillment, I would agree with you.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #402
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    If getting what you want without effort lead to fulfillment, I would agree with you.
    I think it would in a world where that were possible. Besides, it's not necessarily the case that people would have nothing to do. Quite the opposite. It would be very interesting to see a world where everyone had an additional 40 hours a week to do something other than enter data, run a cash register, or haul wood around. Leisure is a driving factor behind progress. I'd wonder what we'd accomplish.
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  3. #403
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    This is basically the most negative way of looking at what ought to be a good thing. Any situation where technology makes laborers obsolete altogether should be a situation in which we can afford being extremely generous in terms of social welfare. The short answer is that we would be in a world where people could happily live without being salary workers.
    Some people would adjust well to that (the entrepreneurs, artists, scientists, etc), but that's a minority of the population. People who have nothing to do, have no purpose, and no real impact on society...that's a recipe for disaster.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #404
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    There are always tradeoffs, but there is no reason to think that we can't have regulation and low unemployment. We are recovering from a major financial catastrophe (caused by too few regulations), and it's going to take time for our economy to adjust to the new reality. Before the crisis we had people motivated to spend, invest, and work because of an overinflated amount of capital in the market, and after that sudden and unexpected loss and redistribution of wealth, the economy is out of whack.

    I would also like to point out that the skilled labor force hasn't really been affected, and if you have the talent and drive, you should have no problem finding a job. It's perfectly alright to blame Obama in the meantime, and you can surely use that belief as motivation to vote for a candidate with a different vision next time around, but you would also be well served by utilizing the control you do have to make your situation better.
    One of the personally significant examples in the past four years of too much regulation has been, ironically, the ones put in place to prevent the big banks from failing which is actually forcing many small community banks to go out of business due to compliance costs (http://www.greeleytribune.com/news/2...y-bank-bankers). Do we really want a greater concentration of capital in even fewer banks than before the crisis?

    Here's an old article that's somewhat relevant: http://www.fdic.gov/bank/analytical/...2/article2.pdf

    Skilled labor has definitely been affected. There's a lot of employers out there who are complaining that there aren't enough skilled workers, but since 2008/2009, almost all employers have had the luxury of becoming extremely picky. It's not uncommon to see employers asking for 5 years experience, several certifications, full background checks, credit checks, drug tests for an entry-level position where before they required only 1 year experience and a drug test. Here's a recent article that identifies and expounds more than I will on a few reasons why getting employed is more difficult now than it was four years ago. http://www.cnbc.com/id/49502497

    Unskilled work is also hard to come by. I've applied to several min. wage jobs in the past year. One thing I've noticed that was different from the last time I tried to apply for these sorts of jobs(about five years ago) is that there are hundreds of applications for positions like "dishwasher" and "line cook" and "retail clerk" and "fast food cashier". I have participated in and have led the hiring process as a dept manager at a grocery store and at a restaurant. At that time, a position like "stock clerk" or "dishwasher" may have pulled in a half-dozen to a dozen applicants. That's a huge difference in the number of people who want to work in the shittiest, most meaningless jobs in the country.

    I know I'll get a million negative reps about how I'm a racist(I'm not) republican(I'm not), but one correctable problem is vast number of aliens who are still in the country, still working illegally under the protection of the federal government. One of the places I applied to was an italian/pizza pub that was hiring pizza makers. There were over 200 applicants for that position and the compensation was $7.50/hour. Many of the people in line were between 25-40, One of the guys ahead of me went to a technical school for welding, he worked for two years and was laid off. Not enough experience to grab another welding job. People want to work, but there simply aren't enough jobs out there, or the jobs they want are requiring more experience and training than they used to. Aliens have a hold on no skill labor, like landscaping, entry level trades/construction jobs, etc etc so all of these people who are unemployed are now turning to other businesses that can't hire aliens with insufficient English, like servers at restaurants and retail clerks, where the ability to communicate with customers is still more important than the ability to work under the table for less than minimum wage.

    Here's an ad for one of the lowest paying trades in the country, from a company that doesn't hire illegals http://wilmington.craigslist.org/trd/3396529969.html Five years ago these ads were asking for a painter with their own tools and maybe 1 or 2 years experience. This ad is requiring 5 years of verifiable experience...and compensation? It's based on experience. Does that sound reasonable to you? How much do you think you're getting per hour if you applied to this job with the minimum required 5 years experience? Probably close to minimum wage, maybe less if it's under the table. I imagine some guy who worked ten years for a painting company(verifiable experience) might get $9.50/hour, whereas someone who was a self-employed painter for ten years(difficult or impossible to verify) wouldn't even get hired.

    Over the past year, I've contacted nearly every landscaping and construction company within twenty miles of here. Ask me about the ones that are between 20-100 miles, if you'd like. They don't need employees because they have aliens working for them. All of those citizens with no-to-medium skills, who are looking for any job that will pay their basic bills, are being turned away from working at one of the few entry-level jobs that they can actually make a living from because we've opened our borders to foreigners and refuse to punish the businesses and the workers who are violating federal and state labor and immigration laws in broad daylight. What amazes me even more than that is that people in the U.S. are supporting this at a time when Mexico's economy is rapidly growing and our own is stagnant. This may have some positive consequences in the future, if more aliens abandon the States for their own country in the coming years. It's one thing to have some immigrants here to take up positions that no one wants, but we're currently saturated with under-the-table, less-than-minimum wage workers from foreign countries, specifically Mexico and we have plenty of citizens who are willing to do any job available. I'd really like to see them get deported en masse, to open up the job market a bit and get some of the 20 million unemployed back to work. This is basically government-sponsored structural unemployment. I hope the zombies come for you first.
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  5. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by LEGERdeMAIN View Post
    One of the personally significant examples in the past four years of too much regulation has been, ironically, the ones put in place to prevent the big banks from failing which is actually forcing many small community banks to go out of business due to compliance costs (http://www.greeleytribune.com/news/2...y-bank-bankers). Do we really want a greater concentration of capital in even fewer banks than before the crisis?

    Here's an old article that's somewhat relevant: http://www.fdic.gov/bank/analytical/...2/article2.pdf

    Skilled labor has definitely been affected. There's a lot of employers out there who are complaining that there aren't enough skilled workers, but since 2008/2009, almost all employers have had the luxury of becoming extremely picky. It's not uncommon to see employers asking for 5 years experience, several certifications, full background checks, credit checks, drug tests for an entry-level position where before they required only 1 year experience and a drug test. Here's a recent article that identifies and expounds more than I will on a few reasons why getting employed is more difficult now than it was four years ago. http://www.cnbc.com/id/49502497

    Unskilled work is also hard to come by. I've applied to several min. wage jobs in the past year. One thing I've noticed that was different from the last time I tried to apply for these sorts of jobs(about five years ago) is that there are hundreds of applications for positions like "dishwasher" and "line cook" and "retail clerk" and "fast food cashier". I have participated in and have led the hiring process as a dept manager at a grocery store and at a restaurant. At that time, a position like "stock clerk" or "dishwasher" may have pulled in a half-dozen to a dozen applicants. That's a huge difference in the number of people who want to work in the shittiest, most meaningless jobs in the country.

    I know I'll get a million negative reps about how I'm a racist(I'm not) republican(I'm not), but one correctable problem is vast number of aliens who are still in the country, still working illegally under the protection of the federal government. One of the places I applied to was an italian/pizza pub that was hiring pizza makers. There were over 200 applicants for that position and the compensation was $7.50/hour. Many of the people in line were between 25-40, One of the guys ahead of me went to a technical school for welding, he worked for two years and was laid off. Not enough experience to grab another welding job. People want to work, but there simply aren't enough jobs out there, or the jobs they want are requiring more experience and training than they used to. Aliens have a hold on no skill labor, like landscaping, entry level trades/construction jobs, etc etc so all of these people who are unemployed are now turning to other businesses that can't hire aliens with insufficient English, like servers at restaurants and retail clerks, where the ability to communicate with customers is still more important than the ability to work under the table for less than minimum wage.

    Here's an ad for one of the lowest paying trades in the country, from a company that doesn't hire illegals http://wilmington.craigslist.org/trd/3396529969.html Five years ago these ads were asking for a painter with their own tools and maybe 1 or 2 years experience. This ad is requiring 5 years of verifiable experience...and compensation? It's based on experience. Does that sound reasonable to you? How much do you think you're getting per hour if you applied to this job with the minimum required 5 years experience? Probably close to minimum wage, maybe less if it's under the table. I imagine some guy who worked ten years for a painting company(verifiable experience) might get $9.50/hour, whereas someone who was a self-employed painter for ten years(difficult or impossible to verify) wouldn't even get hired.

    Over the past year, I've contacted nearly every landscaping and construction company within twenty miles of here. Ask me about the ones that are between 20-100 miles, if you'd like. They don't need employees because they have aliens working for them. All of those citizens with no-to-medium skills, who are looking for any job that will pay their basic bills, are being turned away from working at one of the few entry-level jobs that they can actually make a living from because we've opened our borders to foreigners and refuse to punish the businesses and the workers who are violating federal and state labor and immigration laws in broad daylight. What amazes me even more than that is that people in the U.S. are supporting this at a time when Mexico's economy is rapidly growing and our own is stagnant. This may have some positive consequences in the future, if more aliens abandon the States for their own country in the coming years. It's one thing to have some immigrants here to take up positions that no one wants, but we're currently saturated with under-the-table, less-than-minimum wage workers from foreign countries, specifically Mexico and we have plenty of citizens who are willing to do any job available. I'd really like to see them get deported en masse, to open up the job market a bit and get some of the 20 million unemployed back to work. This is basically government-sponsored structural unemployment. I hope the zombies come for you first.
    what made you decide not to further your education? reading through your writing, i fail to find personal responsibility for your short comings. do you not see where you could have done better or is it just easier to blame others for your problems?

  6. #406
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasoline View Post
    what made you decide not to further your education? reading through your writing, i fail to find personal responsibility for your short comings. do you not see where you could have done better or is it just easier to blame others for your problems?
    TL;DR
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  7. #407
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    I suppose I'm not in a position to discuss this matter then; it would be offensive for me to reply to your genuine personal experience with my opinions and philosophies. I'm lucky in that I, and those with whom I associate, have skill-sets which afford us with a great many opportunities (to the extent that I had to turn down job offers). Further, I don't distinguish between immigrants and native born citizens, since I believe every human being, regardless of his or her native country, has a right to pursue happiness. I genuinely believe (yes, it is a belief, and I don't purport to know for sure) that our economy will recover and most people will again be able to find work.

    I wish you the best.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  8. #408
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    Obama gets re-elected and Hostess goes out of business. Shit just got real. This is an omen of things to come.

    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #409
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    You got a whole Ghostbusters thing going on there.

  10. #410
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moniker View Post
    Obama gets re-elected and Hostess goes out of business. Shit just got real. This is an omen of things to come.
    Oh dammit. Is THAT why I saw the word "Twinkie" show up in the top ten word searchs on Yahoo this week??

    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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