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View Poll Results: How will the popular vote and electoral college be split?

Voters
31. You may not vote on this poll
  • Obama wins both.

    17 54.84%
  • Romney wins both.

    2 6.45%
  • Obama wins the electoral college and Romney wins the popular vote.

    11 35.48%
  • Romney wins the electoral college and Obama wins the popular vote.

    1 3.23%
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  1. #131
    null Jonny's Avatar
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  2. #132
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    Wow, I'd heard fox news was pro-republican but I had no idea it was that blatant. North Korean journalistic values there.

    ETA: and I'm not saying that because I support Obama. I'd honestly be this horrified if it were the Democrats they were supporting in such a manner.
    Hannity's an opinion/advocate journalist, not a newscaster; Fox News is certainly biased in favor of Republicans in general, but the regular news portions are nothing like Hannity.

    Now you've made me curious about what's on the video, though.

    Edit: I stopped after about 30 seconds, which is usually what happens.

  3. #133
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I think someone ought to have to prove that they're a person who has the right to vote.

    Not anything onerous, or heinous.

    Just an ID.
    If there was evidence that election fraud was actually a problem, I would be more concerned. But there's not. There is, however, an enormous amount of evidence that disenfranchisement is a problem.

    Republicans complaining about election fraud is typical party behavior. Invent something for people to be scared of so we can pass laws that have the possibility of violating individual rights. They did it with the War on Terror, blowing the threat WAAAAAY out of proportion so they could create a huge bureaucracy (DHS) dedicated to monitoring American citizens, a bureaucracy that's horribly inept by the way. Billions of dollars are wasted and it does nothing to make Americans any safer. If we let Republicans run roughshod when it comes to election laws, we'll have similar results.

    So again, I'm not against voter ID laws in a theoretical sense, but I'm pretty sure Republicans would fuck up the implementation. That's why the courts struck down so many of them.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #134
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    As a side note, I just read about how Democrats ran ads in Ohio way back early in summer or even late spring, before Romney really mobilized there, and the thinking now is that the damage he took has resulted in things being so tight there and/or a potential loss for him. Apparently the ad that really stuck in people's heads was the following one called "Stage," which regardless of any deeper analysis really hits people on an emotionally harrowing level:



    I hadn't seen this ad before today.

    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    Wow, I'd heard fox news was pro-republican but I had no idea it was that blatant.
    Uh.... lolz?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    If there was evidence that election fraud was actually a problem, I would be more concerned. But there's not. There is, however, an enormous amount of evidence that disenfranchisement is a problem.
    Tbh, I'm not an expert on the evidence for one or the other, so I can't make a proper evidenced-based call on this one.

    All I know is that, theoretically, it would seem very easy to game the system without voter ID laws.

    In fact, someone just posted on my wall about how she could've voted twice in the last election.

    And that's not even bringing up the potential for systemic fraud/abuse, which is very real.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Republicans complaining about election fraud is typical party behavior. Invent something for people to be scared of so we can pass laws that have the possibility of violating individual rights. They did it with the War on Terror, blowing the threat WAAAAAY out of proportion so they could create a huge bureaucracy (DHS) dedicated to monitoring American citizens, a bureaucracy that's horribly inept by the way. Billions of dollars are wasted and it does nothing to make Americans any safer. If we let Republicans run roughshod when it comes to election laws, we'll have similar results.
    Ok, well, I disagree with you here.

    I'm not saying there wasn't overreach post-9/11.

    Even many Republican stalwarts -- including crazy idiots like Darrell Issa, who I cannot stand -- say so, and were against it.

    But I think the threat of terrorists committing a serious attack on the US is real, and that it's something we need to guard against.

    I also am not enough of an expert on the subject to accurately state how effective or inept DHS is -- I've heard plenty of claims that it is.

    Fortunately, tho, we haven't (yet) had another devastating attack on our soil (well, aside from Benghazi), and this could either be explained by some level of effectiveness of DHS, or a lack of any real threat, or some combination of the two. Frankly, tho, which side one falls on on that argument probably has a lot to do with their starting position in the argument, and I've seen enough evidence that there have been a significant number of real threats that have been neutralized, so I'm wary of just saying "there is no real threat, and the Department of Homeland Security is completely useless."

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    So again, I'm not against voter ID laws in a theoretical sense, but I'm pretty sure Republicans would fuck up the implementation. That's why the courts struck down so many of them.
    You could be right in your first count, but I question the second.

    I'm not much of a believer in the perfection or objectivity of our judges.

    Their rulings are their rulings, and, often, I think they are motivated by preconceived biases.

  6. #136
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Tbh, I'm not an expert on the evidence for one or the other, so I can't make a proper evidenced-based call on this one.

    All I know is that, theoretically, it would seem very easy to game the system without voter ID laws.

    In fact, someone just posted on my wall about how she could've voted twice in the last election.
    It's disenfranchisement through inconvenience. Let's look at Florida. In north Florida, people can typically vote in less than 30 minutes when they show up to the polls. In urban central/south Florida, it can take hours. Many people give up on voting because they have other obligations, like getting back to work. Republicans have done this deliberately because they know Florida would swing Democratic if voting was easier in Miami, Tampa, and Orlando.

    In Florida, early voting has been a joke with lines several hours long. Florida is so incompetent when it comes to elections, I wouldn't be upset if the feds took over the management. It's almost impossible for them to be any worse.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2073119.html

    Ok, well, I disagree with you here.
    Debating this would totally derail the thread, so I'll just agree to disagree with you here.

    You could be right in your first count, but I question the second.

    I'm not much a believer in the perfection or objectivity of our judges.

    Their rulings are their rulings, and, often, I think they are motivated by preconceived biases.
    You're right, the second is questionable. I was projecting my own views into that. It could have been a partisan decision.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #137
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    It's disenfranchisement through inconvenience. Let's look at Florida. In north Florida, people can typically vote in less than 30 minutes when they show up to the polls. In urban central/south Florida, it can take hours. Many people give up on voting because they have other obligations, like getting back to work. Republicans have done this deliberately because they know Florida would swing Democratic if voting was easier in Miami, Tampa, and Orlando.

    In Florida, early voting has been a joke with lines several hours long. Florida is so incompetent when it comes to elections, I wouldn't be upset if the feds took over the management. It's almost impossible for them to be any worse.
    That's pretty much it in a nutshell. There's a huge inequity between certain parts of the state, and the saddest part is that a lot of this has been going on for years, and even after the debacle of 2000, it's still a problem. Maybe retirees and white-collar professionals can spend all day in a line (they either aren't working, or can just call in and take a vacation day), but they don't need to do that because the lines aren't bad; meanwhile, people working min wage on an hourly basis don't typically have that luxury to just call in, and their lines lasts hours.

    Early voting is actually a huge benefit, not something superfluous; but even the early voting lines suck because it's been slashed from 14 days to 8 days.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  8. #138
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    Don't have much time to discuss at length, but, ftr, I'm fine with early voting, so long as there are voter ID laws.

    I don't deny the claims of length, it's just unfamiliar to me, cuz I've never had to wait a minute to vote.

    Also, I suspect if people had gone to early voting before the last day(s), it would've been shorter.

  9. #139
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Don't have much time to discuss at length, but, ftr, I'm fine with early voting, so long as there are voter ID laws.

    I don't deny the claims of length, it's just unfamiliar to me, cuz I've never had to wait a minute to vote.

    Also, I suspect if people had gone to early voting before the last day(s), it would've been shorter.
    I haven't experienced long lines, either. I don't think I've ever waited in line more than 10 minutes to vote. But I've usually lived in predominantly white, Republican communities. Even when I lived in south Florida, I lived in a more Republican area (Naples).

    As for your last comment, the lines were ridiculously long every day. They just happened to be even worse on the final day. I know that I would given up if I was going to have to spend 2 or more hours waiting in line to vote, much less 5 or 6.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #140
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    Cool. Thx for the info.

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