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  1. #1
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Default "Pedophile ring" operating out of the BBC

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-iceberg.html#

    Currently watching a damning Panorama exposé on the Jimmy Saville scandal.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-20024904

    Moral of the story is: there's rarely smoke without fire and sometimes when someone "feigns" being a dirty old man, it's because he really is a dirty old man. I always hated the creepy fuck and couldn't understand his celebrity status. He was "hiding in plain sight"; plenty of people knew what was going on but did nothing. Of the kids he abused, even the ones who reported him were not believed.
    Heads are gonna roll. This is going to run and run.
    Last edited by Salomé; 10-25-2012 at 04:54 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    I'm not sure if it will.

    I'm glad that it has all come to public attention, it demonstrates the extent to which child sexual abuse was a widespread phenomenon and I hope will cause a rethink of a lot of the secular and sectarian conceit there has been in the wake of revelations about sex abuse by RCC clergy and the mismanagement of knowledge of offenders by the RCC.

    Some of the accounts which I've heard from people who suspected or knew about Saville are a little worrying in the extent to which they appear to suggest "it was acceptable in the eighties" and was not "covered up" so much as passe.

    I read a transcript from an unbroadcastable episode of Have I Got News For You, a satirical TV news quiz, in which one of the contestants, Paul Merton, on a team opposing Saville who was appearing on the show at the time, lost his temper when Saville made a joke (possibly on que) about being feared in "girls schools up and down the country" calling him a "an old c**t with a pus filled c**k", Merton went on to mention by name a victim of abuse who had been silenced with and out of court settlement (something in the region of 15,000 it was said) and also alledged that Saville had threatened to "break her arm", to which Saville responded that he had threatened to "break both her arms". Merton was encouraged to shut up by the main presenter, the other regular contestant, the floor manager, possibly a legal advisor and also the audience who stopped laughing and didnt know what was going on.

    I dont think it was a case of "no smoke without fire" really but one sign among others that we could be emerging from a pretty dark period in our recent past during which public opinion about child abuse was not what it should have been at all. I take heart that so many people condemn this kind of thing now and hope that it makes it less likely that it'll occur in future (although I am not sure about that).

  3. #3
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    I don't know. I think a lot of people just thought it was unsubstantiated rumour and there simply wasn't enough evidence to go on. He made a lot of risque comments too, but then claimed he was simply joking. The unimaginable horror of what he was doing can't possibly have occurred to most people. He was awarded an OBE, ffs! And headed up all those charities. Surely, they cant all have been complicit? He specifically targeted disabled kids and those with mental health issues or criminal records because they would make "unreliable witnesses".
    But he also clearly thought he was above the law. It's like he was taunting the authorities when he wrote in his autobiography:
    “A high-ranking lady police officer came in one night and showed me a picture of an attractive girl who had run away from a remand home.

    “‘Ah,’ says I all serious, ‘if she comes in I’ll bring her back tomorrow but I’ll keep her all night first as my reward’.” Savile describes how the girl came to one of his dances that evening and stayed the night with him before he handed her over.

    He added: “The officeress was dissuaded from bringing charges against me by her colleagues for it was well known that were I to go, I would probably take half the station with me.”
    If challenged about that, he would probably have claimed it was a joke, but it was a clear warning shot.

    If only he was still alive to be dragged across the coals.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    I don't know. I think a lot of people just thought it was unsubstantiated rumour and there simply wasn't enough evidence to go on. He made a lot of risque comments too, but then claimed he was simply joking. The unimaginable horror of what he was doing can't possibly have occurred to most people. He was awarded an OBE, ffs! And headed up all those charities. Surely, they cant all have been complicit? He specifically targeted disabled kids and those with mental health issues or criminal records because they would make "unreliable witnesses".
    But he also clearly thought he was above the law. It's like he was taunting the authorities when he wrote in his autobiography:


    If challenged about that, he would probably have claimed it was a joke, but it was a clear warning shot.

    If only he was still alive to be dragged across the coals.
    I dont believe they were complicit, it was a cultural thing, it was accepted, expected, tolerated.

    That quote from Saville is a very good one because it is also a very good indication of the sexism which was alive and well in the eighties, officeress? WTF is that? Its pretty clear that he had a very chauvinistic and sexist attitude towards women which he is indicating that her colleagues shared, which would also have played into or permitted the predatory behaviour, from what I've read so far he targetted adults aswell as children and adolescents.

    The whole thing about "unimaginable horror" which "couldnt possibly have occured" to most people is an interesting thing, it didnt hold much water when it was deployed explaining the reactions of clergy and faithful at the time of the revelations about the RCC and I wouldnt expect it to with Saville.

    The social attitudes towards many of those he targetted were so poor as to in some ways protect him, its going to sound like balls but the same thing existed if you've ever seen the film about the Magdelin Laundries in Ireland, certain groups, the mentally ill, reformatory school adolescents, particularly girls, would have been thought of as something other than victims I'm afraid and its taken some time for social attitudes to actually change on that front. That's something I'm happy has happened, although I do think there's a ways to go yet.

  5. #5
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    I'd never heard of him. I was hoping it was this guy:



    It amazes me how much the rich and famous can get away with. I guess the blackmail angle is too easy to believe.

  6. #6
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    If we read the history of childhood, we find child sexual abuse has been normal in most societies until very recently.

  7. #7
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    I'm reading the BBC profile on Savile now. Found this interesting:

    Savile once famously said he had no emotions.

    "That would make me bad news for a psychiatrist or a psychologist because there's nothing to find," he told Dr Anthony Clare in BBC Radio's In the Psychiatrist's Chair in 1991. "What you see is what there is."
    Apparently he recanted later:
    But in one rare moment of candour, he was asked by the interviewer Louis Theroux in 2000 why he had said he had no emotions.
    Jimmy Savile in 1965 Savile, pictured in 1965, first rose to fame as a dance hall DJ and manager

    "'Cause it's easier," he replied. "You say you've got loads and then you've got to explain them for two hours. The truth is that I'm very good at masking them."
    Not sure I buy it.

  8. #8
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I dont believe they were complicit, it was a cultural thing, it was accepted, expected, tolerated.
    No, I don't believe that, it was not generally accepted at all. People were more innocent back then, it just wouldn't have occurred to most of them. I mean, even homosexual men had to hide their sexuality and the public bought the act (which seems preposterous to a more knowing audience). Same with Saville.

    Example: The wife of a producer of his children's show said: "Because of his clumsiness with women, which was not in the least sexual, I thought he was one of those asexual people"
    Is that the first conclusion most people would draw about a character like that now? I very much doubt it.
    That quote from Saville is a very good one because it is also a very good indication of the sexism which was alive and well in the eighties, officeress? WTF is that? Its pretty clear that he had a very chauvinistic and sexist attitude towards women which he is indicating that her colleagues shared, which would also have played into or permitted the predatory behaviour, from what I've read so far he targetted adults aswell as children and adolescents.
    While I can buy that his sexism/predatory behaviour towards women was tolerated (no obvious crime there if the sex was consensual), abusing children is a completely different story. You can't draw parallels.

    The whole thing about "unimaginable horror" which "couldnt possibly have occured" to most people is an interesting thing, it didnt hold much water when it was deployed explaining the reactions of clergy and faithful at the time of the revelations about the RCC and I wouldnt expect it to with Saville.
    That's because senior church officials were shown to be complicit in those crimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    I'd never heard of him. I was hoping it was this guy:.
    I did not need to see that.

    The interview you cite started like this (Theroux was the only journalist to break the silence around the rumour-mill while Saville was alive):

    Voiceover: We were nearing the end of our time together, and as we headed back to Leeds, it was clear that Jimmy was pleased about the press coverage of his broken ankle.

    But it struck me that his relationship with the press hasn't always been a happy one.

    Louis: So, why do you say in interviews that you hate children when I've seen you with kids and you clearly enjoy their company and you have a good rapport with them?

    Jimmy: Right, obviously I don't hate 'em. That's number one.

    Louis: Yeah. So why would you say that then?

    Jimmy: Because we live in a very funny world. And it's easier for me, as a single man, to say "I don't like children" because that puts a lot of salacious tabloid people off the hunt.

    Louis: Are you basically saying that so tabloids don't, you know, pursue this whole 'Is he/isn't he a paedophile?' line, basically?

    Jimmy: Yes, yes, yes. Oh, aye. How do they know whether I am or not? How does anybody know whether I am? Nobody knows whether I am or not. I know I'm not, so I can tell you from experience that the easy way of doing it when they're saying "Oh, you have all them children on Jim'll Fix It", say "Yeah, I hate 'em."

    Louis: Yeah. To me that sounds more, sort of, suspicious in a way though, because it seems so implausible.

    Jimmy: Well, that's my policy, that's the way it goes. That's what I do. And it's worked a dream.

    Pause

    Louis: Has it worked?

    Jimmy: A dream.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  9. #9
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    I had never heard of him, either. There are some parallels to the Jerry Sandusky case- the perception that he would be believed over the youths (or anybody else who might try to speak out), so nobody spoke out; people apparently turning a blind eye because "he does so much for charity," etc. Pretty disgusting.

  10. #10
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Although the Jimmy Savile case is far more vile because it involves the abuse of innocents, it seems like there are some parallels with the Lance Armstrong case and it's interesting they have both broken at the same time. At least, the fact that they both did loads of charity work and seemed to think that either excused what they were doing, or offered a great cover-up. Although in Savile's case it seems he was actively seeking out certain types of charitable work to further his evil behaviour. With Lance Armstrong, it wasn't so much like that but he seemed to have built himself up as a sort of Messiah who could do no wrong.

    The Savile case is really really awful. Shocking. Since I've lived in the UK for several years and Ireland before that, I certainly knew who he was though I think I'd heard of him more as a celebrity DJ than someone who had a children's show. I certainly would have thought he looked weird though. My English friend who's about ten years older than me (ie. early forties), when I asked her about it, said her parents had never let her watch his show and he was not highly regarded in their household. Talk about hiding in full view. I mean, appearance-wise it's almost like he cultivated a creepy pedophile-style look. And I was shocked that all these revelations weren't new - a lot of it seemed like it was an open secret as there were references in his autobiography, others' reminiscences, etc.
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