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  1. #11
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    More on the BBC's role in the cover-up.





    Props to the woman who called out Janet Street-Porter for her failure to act on what she knew. And what a lame-ass response. "I'm a woman in a male-dominated world, who would listen to me?" And worse "I was molested as a child myself, and punished for telling."

    You could have left the Beeb in protest. You could have gone to the press, the police. How many children would have been spared if someone had had the balls to stand up to him - to hell with the consequences. Shame on you, Janet. Shame on you! Everyone who knew and didn't act was an accomplice.

    "Apathy is the glove into which evil slips its hand."
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    No, I don't believe that, it was not generally accepted at all. People were more innocent back then, it just wouldn't have occurred to most of them. I mean, even homosexual men had to hide their sexuality and the public bought the act (which seems preposterous to a more knowing audience). Same with Saville.

    Example: The wife of a producer of his children's show said: "Because of his clumsiness with women, which was not in the least sexual, I thought he was one of those asexual people"
    Is that the first conclusion most people would draw about a character like that now? I very much doubt it.
    While I can buy that his sexism/predatory behaviour towards women was tolerated (no obvious crime there if the sex was consensual), abusing children is a completely different story. You can't draw parallels.

    That's because senior church officials were shown to be complicit in those crimes.

    I did not need to see that.

    The interview you cite started like this (Theroux was the only journalist to break the silence around the rumour-mill while Saville was alive):
    I think its easy to draw links between sexism, mysogyny and predatory behaviour towards vulnerable adults and/or children.

    I'm not convinced it wouldnt have occured to people back then, then and now there is perhaps a horror at the idea which would lead people not to want to spot it and report but would instead try to dismiss it from their minds as mistaken but that's what predators depend upon.

    I read a lot of things about how "dont ask, dont tell" originally applied to the age of conscent, especially among rock stars or celebrity, that could account for some of it, not all of it by a long mark and I think part of this is also going to expose the power of money and connections too. Saville was supposed to be connected to senior people in successive governments. This was also at the time of other scandals like Kincora in Northern Ireland.

  3. #13
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    so nobody spoke out; people apparently turning a blind eye because "he does so much for charity"
    Hamas hides its crimes under a veneer of charity. And the Roman Catholic Church also hides its crimes under a veneer of charity.

    It's as though we need the excuse, "they do so much for charity", to smother our conscience and turn a blind eye.

  4. #14
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I had never heard of him, either. There are some parallels to the Jerry Sandusky case- the perception that he would be believed over the youths (or anybody else who might try to speak out), so nobody spoke out; people apparently turning a blind eye because "he does so much for charity," etc. Pretty disgusting.
    My own take is that the most powerful element in these cases is fear of culpability. The people involved include pedophiles, amoral profiteers, and those who can't shake admiration, but the bread and butter of it all are the people who don't want to face consequences. It's people that neither want to be personally sanctioned nor see sanctions on their community. It feeds itself, too, because of course the longer they ignore the problem the more guilty they'll seem when it's found out. For many of the people involved I think it even causes willful ignorance. They don't know what's going on for sure, because knowledge itself is a kind of culpability.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  5. #15
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Hamas hides its crimes under a veneer of charity. And the Roman Catholic Church also hides its crimes under a veneer of charity.

    It's as though we need the excuse, "they do so much for charity", to smother our conscience and turn a blind eye.
    Indeed. It's a common dynamic. I like to think that if I witnessed an atrocity it wouldn't matter how much charity work the perpetrator had done, though. Then again, I think the "regular folks" often DO speak up, it's just systematically covered-up by the higher-ups in the organization (as it was in the Catholic church, and as it seems to have been in the BBC- similar stuff is coming out about the Boy Scouts of America covering up widespread sexual abuse and failing to report it to the police). And even reporting to the police might not always yield results. There was a quote from Jimmy Savile's autobio earlier in the thread about a runaway spending the night at his home with the full knowledge of the police, he says because he'd "take half the station" with him. That is self-reported by the man himself. That floors me- apparently this was widely known already and nobody did anything to stop him except tell children in hospitals to feign sleep when he visited.

    http://timesopinion.tumblr.com/post/...y-jimmy-savile

    In today’s Times story about the allegations surrounding Jimmy Savile, David Sanderson highlighted some quotes from As It Happens, Savile’s 1974 autobiography, that nobody else seems to have picked up on. It’s strange that they haven’t, because they are startling:

    [Savile] writes of an incident at the Mecca Locarno ballroom in Leeds, where he worked as a DJ during the 1950s, when a female police officer came in with a photograph of “an attractive girl who had run away from a remand home”.

    Savile writes: “‘Ah,’ says I all serious, ‘if she comes in I’ll bring her back tomorrow but I’ll keep her all night first as my reward’.” He then writes that the girl did go into the club and “agreed that I hand her over if she could stay at the dance, [and] come home with me”. He wrote that he did then hand her over to the “lady of the law…[who] was dissuaded from bringing charges against me by her colleagues, for it was well known that were I to go I would probably take half the station with me”.

    I repeat, this is Savile’s autobiography. It wasn’t winkled out of him by a cunning interviewer; he didn’t let it slip when he was pissed. It wasn’t a post-modern joke.

    Rather, these are words he wrote in a book, which were read by a publisher, and presumably by lawyers, and by reviewers, and by readers. One of his alleged victims even claims he gave her a copy of it, after abusing her, with the inscription “No Escape!”.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_S..._abuse_scandal

    Claims were also made about Savile's activities in hospitals. It was claimed that Savile sexually abused a 13-year-old patient during a visit to Stoke Mandeville Hospital in 1971. Staff reported that he would search the wards for young patients to abuse and that they would instruct patients in the children’s ward to feign sleep during his visits.[21] The hospital stated that, though it was working with the police, it had no record of inappropriate behaviour by Savile.[22] A former nurse said she saw Savile molest a brain-damaged patient at Leeds hospital, saying, "He kissed her, and I thought he was a visitor coming to see her, and he started rubbing his hands down her arms and then I don’t know of a nice way to put it but he molested her."

  6. #16
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    My own take is that the most powerful element in these cases is fear of culpability. The people involved include pedophiles, amoral profiteers, and those who can't shake admiration, but the bread and butter of it all are the people who don't want to face consequences. It's people that neither want to be personally sanctioned nor see sanctions on their community. It feeds itself, too, because of course the longer they ignore the problem the more guilty they'll seem when it's found out. For many of the people involved I think it even causes willful ignorance. They don't know what's going on for sure, because knowledge itself is a kind of culpability.
    I agree with that post in its entirety, I also think that it applies far beyond the realm of criminal behaviour or crimes of peadophilia, as you say MP its about consequences generally and I think this has infested most institutions, public and private, so there are people who make entire careers out of attempting to minimise responsibility, including knowledge, while maximising credit for any incidential successes or, more often than not, other peoples or subordinates successes.

    If you were to write a real management text book it would be all about how to do this, some books like the rules of power book, have come close but not entirely on message because they continue prepetuate the idea that it is a sort of courageous or clever or skilled effort when its really rank cowardice with a lot of people dying from stress because they exist on the edge of panic.

  7. #17
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    According to Corey Feldman, a similar dynamic is in play in Hollywood....I'm not saying I believe or disbelieve him, but considering the support Roman Polanski recieves, I wouldn't be very surprised if its true.

  8. #18
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    According to Corey Feldman, a similar dynamic is in play in Hollywood....I'm not saying I believe or disbelieve him, but considering the support Roman Polanski recieves, I wouldn't be very surprised if its true.
    I wouldn't be surprised either. I think probably anywhere you get an insular, self-serving community of privileged people, there's likely to be some kind of shenanigans going on that they want to keep covered up.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    I'd never heard of him. I was hoping it was this guy:



    It amazes me how much the rich and famous can get away with. I guess the blackmail angle is too easy to believe.

  10. #20
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Yeah the words 'disgusting' 'vile' or 'abhorrent' dont seem to convey the horror in this, perhaps not that surprising, revelation.

    For some reason the part I find most upsetting is those who refuse to believe the charges simply because they have some glossed over view from their childhood of Saville. Ive actually met people who believe that they should just let it drop.

    There were many verbal slaps that day. I hold no delusions that if someone I admired were to turn out such skeletons from their closet, I would have no problem dropping them from my perception of admiration.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

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