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  1. #41
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Fuck me. You can understand it??? Genuinely terrifying.
    Bringing a child into this world is a large responsibility, and not one to be taken lightly. Sex is an act of love or done for entertainment, less frequently for proliferation. It is expected in most relationships; to abstain often means abstaining from intimacy and ignoring basic human desires. A man seeks other things, and consequently is confronted with the prospect of being forced into fatherhood. Even if he is allowed to escape fiduciary responsibility, such a thing weighs heavily on the psyche. Can he just never see the kid? His life is no longer his own. He relinquishes control to another person. It takes two to consent to sex, but only one to consent to maturation and a life of responsibility (or guilt) for both parties.

    We may condemn the actions of others, but to do so without understanding what drives them is an act of lazy self indulgence. Yes, it was wrong to poison another human being, but his motives were not to harm. He sought to remain free.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  2. #42
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    Bringing a child into this world is a large responsibility, and not one to be taken lightly. Sex is an act of love or done for entertainment, less frequently for proliferation. It is expected in most relationships; to abstain often means abstaining from intimacy and ignoring basic human desires. A man seeks other things, and consequently is confronted with the prospect of being forced into fatherhood. Even if he is allowed to escape fiduciary responsibility, such a thing weighs heavily on the psyche. Can he just never see the kid? His life is no longer his own. He relinquishes control to another person. It takes two to consent to sex, but only one to consent to maturation and a life of responsibility (or guilt) for both parties.

    We may condemn the actions of others, but to do so without understanding what drives them is an act of lazy self indulgence. Yes, it was wrong to poison another human being, but his motives were not to harm. He sought to remain free.
    Have you considered pursuing a career in the Legal Industry?
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  3. #43
    FigerPuppet
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    I guess all this talk of equal rights and equal pay in the media got to his head. He was simply reclaiming his reproductive rights. The fundamental biological differences between men and women should, after all, not be used as justification for a gender-bias in terms of rights.

    Right?

    Desperate men will resort to desperate measures such as these until the legal system recognizes that the very exploitable ability of women to make a unilateral decision when it comes to reproduction puts men in the worst position in terms of rights. A solution could be to provide the man with the option of absolving himself of all responsibilities and rights with regards to the child, as long as this is done within the time period that an abortion is legal so the women has time to consider her new situation, and whether or not she wants to go on with the pregnancy.

    I smell that stupid "Don't have sex until you're ready to be a parent"-argument coming. It's basically the same as saying: "Don't store cleaning products in your house until you are prepared for your child's death-by-poison" Both cases concern an inherent risk of something very undesirable.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmileyMan View Post
    I smell that stupid "Don't have sex until you're ready to be a parent"-argument coming. It's basically the same as saying: "Don't store cleaning products in your house until you are prepared for your child's death-by-poison" Both cases concern an inherent risk of something very undesirable.
    I have no idea to what extent you're serious in the rest of this, but this is a horrible analogy.

  5. #45
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    The killing of a fetus with "malice aforethought" in the jurisdiction of the state of California (where the crime is alleged) is murder under the the law (with a noted exception for the mother or her abortion doctor). (187 California Penal Code)

    It really is of minimal relevance if posters on this board disagree with the law or otherwise find it hypocritical. I suppose the state of California could call killing a gerbil while engaging in sodomy murder if it chose (assuming a federal court didn't deem it contrary to the U.S. Constitution)
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

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  6. #46
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    The underlined is speculation.
    Oh Lordy, only an INTJ could say this with a straight face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    This kind of response, and Jonnyboy's, really scare the shit out of me. Medicating your pregnant girlfriend to induce an abortion against her will is just "a douchey thing to do"? What the actual fuck.
    Theoretical.

    Guy is sleeping with girl. Girl gets pregnant. Guy is stuck. Turns out, girl got pregnant on purpose. Doesn't matter, he's stuck.
    Guy does one of two things:
    a) He pushes for abortion; threatens with lawyers.
    b) He denies his involvement in the situation; pushes for a type of non financial custody of the child.

    Both "douchey" things to do, but can you blame him?

    (To the extent of punishing him?)

    Those two are just less extreme examples of the thread example.

    Just that the two are on one side of the law, and the one is on the other..

    It depends on if cells are people. People are cells, that is, people are made up of them, but are cells people?
    Because, depending on that, none of those examples could be acceptable (and thus, unlawful) or they all could all be unacceptable, but douchey, but not necessarily douchey enough to be unlawful...

    Don't know..

  8. #48
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xisnotx View Post
    Guy is sleeping with girl. Girl gets pregnant. Guy is stuck. Turns out, girl got pregnant on purpose. Doesn't matter, he's stuck.
    Guy does one of two things:
    a) He pushes for abortion; threatens with lawyers.
    What? Do you actually think it is (or should be) possible to take someone to court to force them to abort their baby?
    What planet are you from?
    And how is *he* "stuck" anyway?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  9. #49
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    You speak as if the line between the douchey behaviors you describe and what happened in this case is completely arbitrary. But, though certainly douchey, neither of those things violate the mother's bodily integrity in any way. That seems like a pretty bright, wide, sensible line that is drawn by the laws on this matter.

    Edit: and yeah, I don't know what the guy could "threaten with lawyers" to try to convince the woman to abort.

    I also think you're reaching with the "she got pregnant on purpose" thing. There is no evidence to suggest that the woman in this case got pregnant on purpose- and even if she did, it's absolutely not cause to medicate her against her will and kill a fetus that she was anticipating giving birth to and raising.

  10. #50
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Bottom line- once a pregnancy is established, what's happening for the next 40 weeks is happening inside the body of a woman. That is not a technicality.

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