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  1. #31
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    I didn't say it wasn't a crime (that varies and I don't know the specifics), I said it wasn't a crime against humanity, which has an international definition.
    I guess you missed the context of my post (as you missed the context of the entire thread).
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  2. #32
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    I guess you missed the context of my post (as you missed the context of the entire thread).
    No. Legal definitions aside, you were wrongly (and perhaps purposely) associating an isolated induced abortion with crimes that are punished with death penalty.

    Anyways, keep assuming that everyone who ever disagrees with you has ''missed the point''. Way to go!

  3. #33
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    No. Legal definitions aside, you were wrongly (and perhaps purposely) associating an isolated induced abortion with crimes that are punished with death penalty. !
    Yeah, you totally missed the context. Nico did not, and since it was addressed to him and not you, that's all that matters.

    Also, the International Criminal Court can't impose the death penalty. Which you'd know if you hadn't just googled shit in an attempt to call me "wrong".
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Unfortunately, you are correct. As soon as a woman becomes pregnant, it seems everything revolves around the fetus, to the point that the woman becomes an afterthought. This is backwards. The crimes here are all against the woman: adminstering drugs without her consent (and without proper medical training); which by extension could be doing her significant bodily harm (assault by medicine, almost); and finally terminating her pregnancy without her consent. Just as no one should be able to force someone to carry a pregnancy to term, no one should be able to force someone to terminate it. Giving the fetus legal status in such a case is just a way for those who oppose reproductive autonomy to get their foot in the door for further restrictions on abortion.
    The abortion debate should really become a debate about male conduct, I'd be most comfortable with that, unless anyone can prove a fundamental betrayal of trust or deceive occasioning pregnancy and perhaps nullifying or impacting upon responsibility (and in this case I'm thinking of the theft of genetic matter from condoms or something, not the normal tricking a horny male excuse).

    The reality is that women do not spontaneously become pregnant, whether it has been as a consequence of a crime or accident there has been a male involved. If men want to prevent and stop abortions they need to stop having unprotected sex with women.

  5. #35
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    A definitely effed up situation.

    I would say the legalities are complicated. I would hesitate to say yes because that could easily be turned around on a pregnant woman who chooses to have an abortion; if forced abortion is attempted murder then voluntary abortion is successful murder (with which I personally disagree).

    I think the whole business of men trying to induce miscarriages by means of drugs or violence is so many kinds of reprehensible, it doesn't matter which kind is most prominent (except unfortunately it has to in the eyes of the law), and the women should DTMFA.
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=DTMFA

  6. #36
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Am I the only one who's slightly confused by the role of "white powder" in "foreplay"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  7. #37
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    lol, this is almost the exact opposite of a woman pretending to take birth control pills, getting pregnant, and sticking the guy with the bill..

    is it murder?

    it's a douchey thing to do...

  8. #38
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    I love abortion threads...

    Let's see.

    First thing is, can you murder something that isn't a human? When you kill a dog, even intentionally, is it "murder"?

    Because, contingent on that, you could give a definitive yes or no answer to the question posed, based on whether you think an unborn child is human.

  9. #39
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xisnotx View Post
    lol, this is almost the exact opposite of a woman pretending to take birth control pills, getting pregnant, and sticking the guy with the bill..

    is it murder?

    it's a douchey thing to do...
    This kind of response, and Jonnyboy's, really scare the shit out of me. Medicating your pregnant girlfriend to induce an abortion against her will is just "a douchey thing to do"? What the actual fuck.

  10. #40
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    That's not true and is not born out by the facts. The prosecution are going for four counts of attempted murder because it will carry the heaviest penalty. Pretty sure the woman herself believes her baby's life should be taken seriously too. It's only a foetus to you, to her, it's her (wanted) child!
    The highlighted is verifiable fact, and perhaps a reasonable legal tactic where permitted. The underlined is speculation. The rest is not fact at all. The only "fact" is that the contents of a womb at 13 weeks is a fetus, and that is just an observation about vocabulary. I can put all the sentimental value I want on, say, an old toy from my grandfather, or my mother's wooden cooking spoon, but that will carry little weight with courts or insurance should I need to report them stolen.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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