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  1. #151
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    I know it's not a proper use of the word. I'm such a maverick!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  2. #152
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    No. It's your GUESS at his motivations, based on the fact that you choose to identify with him, a criminal, over her, a victim of crime. That's your prerogative, of course. But it doesn't qualify you to present mitigating evidence.

    Again, no, you are just guessing/making excuses. How exactly, is it going to adversely affect his life? He is a wealthy man, you think he did this because he can't afford child support? Please.
    Besides which, THEY WERE HIS CHOICES. His choice to have unprotected sex. His choice to commit 4 acts of attempted murder.
    That's like saying if you steal from someone and they threaten to go to the police, you're entitled to kill them because their actions might put your future liberty in jeopardy and you "don't have a say". FFS! I can't even believe it's necessary to spell this out.
    I agree, it is my guess. Often when someone does something out of the ordinary, people speculate about the motives behind the action. This is why what I've been discussing is in no way justification for his actions; it is simply a discussion about a very likely motive a man might have for doing such a thing. Motive =/= entitlement.

    As for this whole "his choice" nonsense, well, I suppose it is the same thing as saying "it was her choice to walk alone at night in that skimpy dress." In both cases, a person does something not expecting the consequences, and suffers as a result.

    Just think, she might be carrying a future psychopath in her womb as we speak. Like father like son.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  3. #153
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    As for this whole "his choice" nonsense, well, I suppose it is the same thing as saying "it was her choice to walk alone at night in that skimpy dress." In both cases, a person does something not expecting the consequences, and suffers as a result.


    If I didn't know you were a troll I'd despair. Actually, fuck it, I'm gonna go ahead and despair anyway.
    This is what happens when you revisit decisions to put posters on ignore.
    I blame myself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  4. #154
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    @Salomé

    I assure you, I'm not trolling. Your point was that he made the decision to sleep with her, and thus he should be ready to deal with the consequence of being forced into fatherhood and the financial responsibility that goes with it. Not even you can deny the obvious fact that he did not intend for this to occur, in much the same way as a woman walking alone at night doesn't intend to be assaulted. A crucial difference is that the former is aided by law (the woman has a legal right to decide for herself, and to seek financial support from the father), and the latter is a crime. I'm going to be very blunt here: provided I didn't contract an incurable disease, I would rather be raped and assaulted than be forced into fatherhood. Period. Further, the basic needs of humankind drive me to do things that might lead to the production of an unwanted child, but it is easy enough to avoid a dangerous part of town at night.

    I have nothing against a woman's right to choose, and again, I think what the guy did was abhorrent and unacceptable.

    On another note, both in this thread and the thread on privacy issues you started some time ago, you've accused me of being a troll. Let me reiterate, I'm not a troll. I may have beliefs that you find difficult to understand or accept, and you may deem me ignorant, stupid, offensive, immoral, etc; but whatever your opinion of me, I make every attempt to ensure that my impact on the world is a positive one. Just because I have a soft spot for the murderers, rapists, pedophiles, corrupt politicians, etc, doesn't mean I don't have a profound sympathy for their victims and a hope that we can create a world free from suffering. I just don't think that vilifying someone without understanding his motives is the right way to go about doing that. I'm sorry.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  5. #155
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    Not even you can deny the obvious fact that he did not intend for this to occur
    I must have missed the post which stated he was wearing a condom or had a vasectomy.

  6. #156
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    You're right. I suppose his master plan was to impregnate her and then beg her to abort. He must be a liberal democrat.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  7. #157
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    You're right.
    I know that.

  8. #158
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    I assure you, I'm not trolling. Your point was that he made the decision to sleep with her, and thus he should be ready to deal with the consequence of being forced into fatherhood and the financial responsibility that goes with it. Not even you can deny the obvious fact that he did not intend for this to occur, in much the same way as a woman walking alone at night doesn't intend to be assaulted. A crucial difference is that the former is aided by law (the woman has a legal right to decide for herself, and to seek financial support from the father), and the latter is a crime. I'm going to be very blunt here: provided I didn't contract an incurable disease, I would rather be raped and assaulted than be forced into fatherhood. Period. Further, the basic needs of humankind drive me to do things that might lead to the production of an unwanted child, but it is easy enough to avoid a dangerous part of town at night.
    Your analysis is simplistic. The man didn't just make the decision to have sex, he made the decision to have sex without ensuring contraceptives were used. At minimum, he could have put on a condom. That should be worth tolerating, to avoid unwanted fatherhood. As for the woman in the unsafe area, perhaps she is a teenager, and that's where her family lives. Perhaps that is where her job is, or the only place she can afford to live. The average man has more say in when to have sex than many women have over the safety of their environment.

    You are right that it is important to understand people's motivations, though. The intent, however, should be to use that understanding to help men make better decisions, so they avoid unwanted outcomes.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  9. #159
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Your analysis is simplistic. The man didn't just make the decision to have sex, he made the decision to have sex without ensuring contraceptives were used. At minimum, he could have put on a condom. That should be worth tolerating, to avoid unwanted fatherhood. As for the woman in the unsafe area, perhaps she is a teenager, and that's where her family lives. Perhaps that is where her job is, or the only place she can afford to live. The average man has more say in when to have sex than many women have over the safety of their environment.

    You are right that it is important to understand people's motivations, though. The intent, however, should be to use that understanding to help men make better decisions, so they avoid unwanted outcomes.
    The point I was making is that there are factors in every situation that complicate matters, and to judge someone without making an effort to understand his motivations won't help solve the problem in the long run. Clearly there could be factors that are out of a person's control that might cause her to be out late at night in a dangerous area. That wasn't my point. I wasn't arguing that every woman who is assaulted is, to the same degree, "responsible" for her assault. My point was that society has a mechanism in place to aid those women (or men in the same situation), regardless of the reasons they had for being in the dangerous situation to begin with (with some exceptions).

    Do you not see what you are suggesting? "The intent, however, should be to use that understanding to help men make better decisions, so they avoid unwanted outcomes." The "unwanted outcome" you're talking about is a woman having some legal control over the rest of a man's life. That is a product of society. It's as if there is nothing we can do for these men but educate them on how to properly deal with women, because we couldn't possibly change the legal circumstances that put them in this position. It shouldn't have to be that way. We shouldn't have to say "Best wear a condom or else that bitch will have you by the balls!" Free men from having to pay child support.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  10. #160
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    Do you not see what you are suggesting? "The intent, however, should be to use that understanding to help men make better decisions, so they avoid unwanted outcomes." The "unwanted outcome" you're talking about is a woman having some legal control over the rest of a man's life. That is a product of society. It's as if there is nothing we can do for these men but educate them on how to properly deal with women, because we couldn't possibly change the legal circumstances that put them in this position. It shouldn't have to be that way. We shouldn't have to say "Best wear a condom or else that bitch will have you by the balls!" Free men from having to pay child support.
    It takes two people to make a baby. That is not a product of society, it is basic biology. I don't see what the great burden is in using BC, whether you are male or female. We know how to prevent conception. If that is important to someone and he/she does not take those simple, necessary measures, it is just irresponsible. (Women would probably be happy to be able to avoid assault in questionable areas by putting on a simple "assailant-repeller".)
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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