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  1. #121
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Why would you (unless you had some kind of creepy fixation)? It's irrelevant. One of the reasons for changing my handle (not my identity), is to help people like you, (who seem capable of no reply that is not ad hominem) to focus on what I say rather than who I am. Why don't you try it?
    Every debate I enter into ends up being all about me. It's absurd. What is it about me that gets those panties so bunched up? Ask yourself (quietly)... then STFU about it and try to stay on-topic.
    Focusing on what you say always leads back to your character because you're incapable of discussing an issue without bringing lots of vitriol, then when people react, you act as though they started it and it's their problem. You're basically a troll, but I don't think your intent is to troll. You don't have that much self-awareness.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #122
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    No, this is one of the few inequalities inherent in our biology, at least until we have male gestation or artificial wombs,
    The biological inequality is accounted for in the fact that a man cannot force a woman to have or not have an abortion. Forcing a man to pay for a child he never wanted is unnecessary.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    If you can't trust her, you probably shouldn't be having sex with her.
    No shit. Logic says of course you shouldn't! Experience says lots of men do it anyway.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  4. #124
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Which is the fundamental problem: wanting sex? Or not wanting children?
    Not wanting children as a society.

    Not wanting children is a rational response to an overpopulated world with finite resources.
    I really doubt our consumerist society loves the earth too much to want children. The reason why it appears that there is an overpopulated world is the same reason that society does not want children. That is, our society has no interest in being a fruitful steward of all the wonderful and vulnerable things that are entrusted to us whether they be children, animals, or land.

    Does that seem like a very "intelligent design"...?
    If there is no intelligent design then there is no "fundamental problem." In such a scenario there is only what "is" because there is no proper design to align society with.

    The fundamental problem, in this case, (and in many of the immature responses in this thread), is a lack of appropriate empathy.
    No, that is a part of the bigger problem. But, I do appreciate you bringing up that issue.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  5. #125
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    No shit. Logic says of course you shouldn't!
    The logic that keeps men virgins?
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  6. #126
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Not wanting children is a rational response to an overpopulated world with finite resources.
    um, just an aside, but that logic only realistically* applies to countries like Niger, with extremely high birthrates on extremely marginal land....in countries like the UK**, the problem is low birthrates rather than high birthrates. There are other, personal reasons why a man or woman in a developed country would rationally not want children (lack of time and income, etc.), but overpopulation is simply not one of them.

    *There are too many political, socio-economic, and cultural impediments for mass immigration/emigration to be a viable alternative....besides which, the 'brain drain' from the developing world would simply reinforce the cultural and structural variables leading to overpopulation in those countries, making the 'global' problem (insofar as it exist) worse in the long run.

    **though the problem is not nearly as dire as it is in countries like Germany or Russia.

  7. #127
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Focusing on what you say always leads back to your character because you're incapable of discussing an issue without bringing lots of vitriol, then when people react, you act as though they started it and it's their problem. You're basically a troll, but I don't think your intent is to troll. You don't have that much self-awareness.
    You just described yourself. As usual, you're full of shit. You don't fool anyone. All you ever do is attack me because you're incapable of constructing an articulate argument and the fact that I can makes you feel insecure. Grow up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  8. #128
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    um, just an aside, but that logic only realistically* applies to countries like Niger, with extremely high birthrates on extremely marginal land....in countries like the UK**, the problem is low birthrates rather than high birthrates.
    I disagree. There are 60 million+ people living on this tiny island. It's one of the most densely populated places on earth. There are 7 billion people on the planet. Resources are finite globally. It's not just a local issue.

    That the population is ageing, is a problem in the West, but that's only an issue in terms of securing quality of life for those populations. It says nothing about the desirability of higher birth rates.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  9. #129
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    I really doubt our consumerist society loves the earth too much to want children. The reason why it appears that there is an overpopulated world is the same reason that society does not want children. That is, our society has no interest in being a fruitful steward of all the wonderful and vulnerable things that are entrusted to us whether they be children, animals, or land.
    Whether you doubt it or not doesn't stop it being rational.

    If there is no intelligent design then there is no "fundamental problem." In such a scenario there is only what "is" because there is no proper design to align society with.
    What nonsense. Are you even convincing yourself?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  10. #130
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    I disagree. There are 60 million+ people living on this tiny island. It's one of the most densely populated places on earth. There are 7 billion people on the planet. Resources are finite globally. It's not just a local issue.

    That the population is ageing, is a problem in the West, but that's only an issue in terms of securing quality of life for those populations. It says nothing about the desirability of higher birth rates.
    Well, if you think 'quality of life' is insufficient grounds for the desiriability of replacement-level birth rates, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that point (though I maintain that the current population density in the UK is not a problem when carrying capacity and capital resources are taken into account)....globally, however, the production lost in the UK due to a smaller market and less workers is just going to move to countries that consume more resources and produce more pollution per unit of production, so sacrificing quality of life in th UK is not likely to positively impact the global situation even in the absence of mass immigration from developing countries artificially extending high birth rates in those countries.

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