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  1. #81
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rail Tracer View Post
    I think those rules are there for our protection. I honestly don't think the system is arbitrary - it is like a background check. I would want a professional that learn a lot of the procedures before becoming a professional. I mean, I wouldn't want a surgeon who has gotten his degree because they made the system any more laxed. My life is in their hands, and I'd expect them to have great knowledge in what they do.

    In comparison, I would compare it to making the procedure if checking the procedure for medicine. Those who want to funnel their pill without any restrictions push their product onto the supplements group, those that are considered medicine have gone through rigorous tests to prove that they are intended for their uses. I'd much rather prefer the second group over the first.

    Reduction of cost by making it more laxed is not the way to go, especially when it comes to a healthcare professional.
    We don't have to make the system more lax, just more geared to the actual product desired. Success in academic coursework and general "book smarts" do not necessarily make the best doctors. This is one area where on-the-job training is essential. Our system currently includes plenty of that in internship and residency programs, though these are not perfect. So, I wouldn't worry so much about grades as about job performance while a "trainee".

    Considerable cost reductions can be made by expanding the role of other medical professionals like physician assistants and nurse practitioners. They can handle many everyday problems and checkups, while the greater education and expertise of physicians is focused where it is really needed.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  2. #82
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    We don't have to make the system more lax, just more geared to the actual product desired. Success in academic coursework and general "book smarts" do not necessarily make the best doctors. This is one area where on-the-job training is essential. Our system currently includes plenty of that in internship and residency programs, though these are not perfect. So, I wouldn't worry so much about grades as about job performance while a "trainee".

    Considerable cost reductions can be made by expanding the role of other medical professionals like physician assistants and nurse practitioners. They can handle many everyday problems and checkups, while the greater education and expertise of physicians is focused where it is really needed.
    In some ways, I believe we already do that. Not completely, but we already do.

    There are community colleges and private institutions that teach dental assistant programs, etc while the more rigorous tasks are left to 4 years or phd level. Many dental clinics teach students for just that, for their specialized role in say, cleaning.

    While people often pay for health insurance, many doctors are also forced to pay their own kind of insurance just in case a patient decides to sue the doctor. I think a work around for this would be better as a big chunk of their sum goes towards not getting sued by someone who did not like their results.

  3. #83
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rail Tracer View Post
    In some ways, I believe we already do that. Not completely, but we already do.

    There are community colleges and private institutions that teach dental assistant programs, etc while the more rigorous tasks are left to 4 years or phd level. Many dental clinics teach students for just that, for their specialized role in say, cleaning.

    While people often pay for health insurance, many doctors are also forced to pay their own kind of insurance just in case a patient decides to sue the doctor. I think a work around for this would be better as a big chunk of their sum goes towards not getting sued by someone who did not like their results.
    Addressing this would bring one more significant cost savings, since malpractice insurance is a significant part of physicians' costs of staying in business. Even auto and liability insurance would get a major overhaul in a comprehensive health care system. If everyone's medical expenses are already covered through such a system, they will never figure in a lawsuit. Liability for causing damage or injury in an accident or through negligence would then best be handled as a criminal matter, or limited to reimbursement for lost wages, damaged property, etc.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rail Tracer View Post
    Reduction of cost by making it more laxed is not the way to go, especially when it comes to a healthcare professional.
    The problem cannot be solved by staunchly adhering to old beliefs and refusing to consider fresh approaches. How do you know that an ambitious businessman who gets top marks is going to keep patients healthier than a caring humanitarian who is not as academically inclined?

  5. #85
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    The problem cannot be solved by staunchly adhering to old beliefs and refusing to consider fresh approaches. How do you know that an ambitious businessman who gets top marks is going to keep patients healthier than a caring humanitarian who is not as academically inclined?
    Like what I stated with Coriolis, for those who don't want to get a phd or a 4-year, some of these can get into dental and health assistant programs. At most, many of them are offered at community colleges or at a private/specialist schools. In fact, you can also do these type of work by joining the military if you are so inclined. You can still help clean teeth for cheap or nothing at all, you can still see patients and help them with the specialized knowledge you know of. You can work with a dentist or doctor that accepts medical, or even try to land a job with Peace-Corps. You just won't have the breadth that a 8-year phd doctoral program has versus these other alternatives.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rail Tracer View Post
    Like what I stated with Coriolis, for those who don't want to get a phd or a 4-year, some of these can get into dental and health assistant programs.
    Are you suggesting that status quo is good enough? It isn't. It is unaffordable.

  7. #87
    Knobgoblin mooseantlers's Avatar
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    I don't think ever, The USA is incredibly capitalist and actually fears communism, unfortunately many people view socialism as dulled down communism, which it isn't.
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  8. #88
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    Are you suggesting that status quo is good enough? It isn't. It is unaffordable.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1835889.html
    http://www.theatlantic.com/national/...nceton/247629/

    What is this status quo? We spend more, on average, to put people in prison than we do to teach prospective higher-ed students, which are considered future investment. We spend more on finding drug addicts than we are to fund higher-education. We spend more, on average to fund military operations than we do to fund higher-education.

    Maybe that is the reason this status quo does not work, because we aren't spending our money on investments we know that give a return investment, which is appropriate given the situation.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rail Tracer View Post
    [url]
    Maybe that is the reason this status quo does not work, because we aren't spending our money on investments we know that give a return investment, which is appropriate given the situation.
    Diverting more money into a grossly inefficient systems is not the answer. As I've said, costs would simply rise further.

  10. #90
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    I think we could allow more doctors and other medical professionals to be trained without lowering standards significantly. Licensing associations operate kind of like guilds, don't they? They want to keep their numbers down in order to keep their earnings up. We've de-unionized a lot of stuff, but we haven't adressed this issue with the medical profession as far as I can tell.

    Something else we could do would be to pay for the education of poor people that want to and appear to be capable of becoming doctors, etc.

    Obviously having more nurse practitioners and physician's assistants deal with routine stuff and less serious illnesses is a no brainer.

    As far as costs go, the Veteran's Administration and the governments of other countries negotiate drug prices with pharmaceutical companies. They're buying a lot of drugs and they are able to get a better deal because of that. Medicare and Medicaid do not negotiate drug prices. I think negotiating for a better deal would be a good thing to do.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
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