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  1. #51
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Thank you, sounds interesting. A couple of years ago I was totally fascinated by Tony Judt's book Postwar, about Europe since 1945. I remember the section on the Yugoslav wars was titled "The Reckoning", which was rather chilling.

    Unfortunately, when I read books like that I'm totally involved and interested and then afterwards...I hardly remember any details at all. I'm just like "it's awesome! READ IT!"

    I was similarly impressed by Geert Mak's In Europe.
    No problem. It's been a while since I last read through Tony Judt's book. I understand what you mean about how the impressions forged by books are what remain with you. Must be an INFJ thing.

  2. #52
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    There is a longer history of alliance between the US and China than the US and EU, during the cold war the US was in a pact with China and sought to accentuate the differences between China and Russia, its even mentioned in the movie Red Dawn in which a downed US pilot in a post-invasion America tells them that the Chinese have been fighting the Russians.

    Also there are similarities between the US ruling elites and rising capitalists of China and privileged US dynastic politicans and those in the Chinese Politbureau, plus the US and UK believe that they can exploit China's wealth to ensure a little more longevity for their over bloated financial sectors.

    The EU really does have a different model of social economic growth to either the Chinese or US, it is not favourable to financial sector growth and dependency the way that the UK-US are, in the UK-US model the tail wags the dog if you ask me. I'm not sure that the EU would have inevitably moved towards jobless growth like the US, maybe but I think things really are different in Germany and provided they would maintain hegemony I couldnt see that changing. Mind you the French just want to have their own version of wall street from what I've been told and become like the US or UK.
    Thats all true what you say. I have been thinking that the us would still have a stronger control over Europe, because at least military my country has been until the end of communism, been a playground for the cold war.

    I think Europe would be better off without a monetary union with Germany. Only problem is that this would be the end for my country, cause export products would become so expensive and with China raising as an export nation and becoming better and better every day, this would prolly be the end. And the model Europe wouldnt function then, cause the moment any other nation would become stronger in the Eurozone, it basically would again have to leave.

    So that idea of Europe really is more threatened than it ever was and that nobel peace price thing, is an indicator for me how dangerous it really is. I think the Petroeuro is off the table for now, if that was the idea by somebody, he definitly succeeded.

    I think now the one billion euro question is which unlikely scenario will happen: will europe break apart, maybe only a bit or will they continue pumping money in it. The latter scenario is suicide for every rich country in the EU. And its questionable if it would really help.

    Another scneario I lately read, which aint too bad, is the idea of dual currencies. Namely every nation would keep the Euro but parallely reinstate their national currency. that would make it possible to save the value in a national currency while parallely devaluate the Euro so much, so poorer countries become competitive again. Surely you'ld need to help poorer countries again, but then this could happen thru legal european methods, like structural and economical helps and no direct money injection like it is now. The us would like that, cause then the major competitor of the dollar would be out of the race. Maybe tho thats what necesarry for an Europe coming to new strength.

    Only really good thing is that everybody seems to have understood that a return to a small nations politic without the idea of Europe would be bad for everyone. That makes the scifi idea of the United Nations run stable at a low share value .
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #53
    Senior Member Rex's Avatar
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    I don`t like the attention that we are getting. I don`t like the nobel prize actually. At least not the peace prize.
    Epic derailment:
    wierd memory work->Tamagochi->tetris->Starcraft2->thugs->Chess->german techno->Love parade->disaster->death..
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1wH2...eature=related

  4. #54
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    I dont care at all... however I do care just enough to come in here and make sure everyone knows I dont care.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  5. #55
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    In case @SilkRoad is still interested in why Europe hasn't gone to war since WWII
    What exactly do you mean by this? There have been several wars involving European nations since WWII.
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  6. #56
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    there is no crisis. what there is is an excuse to extort money from the poor, as always. for i dont think wealthy people are suffering from the crisis, the money is all going in their pockets!

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    If demanding that Southern Europeans live within their means in return for monetary assistance that Germany et al can ill afford to give constitutes 'war', then how do you define endangering the economies of hundreds of millions other Europeans with unsustainable debt?

    As for Syria, while I don't think the West really has a dog in that fight (unless we are chain-ganged into war by Turkey), how in the abstract is allowing a brutal dictator to kill his own people without opposition morally superior to arming rebels that one views as freedom fighters?

  7. #57
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkgraffiti View Post
    there is no crisis. what there is is an excuse to extort money from the poor, as always. for i dont think wealthy people are suffering from the crisis, the money is all going in their pockets!
    Thats crisis enough for me
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  8. #58
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    Agree it's a mockery. The EU exists exclusively to further the economic interests of member nations - at which it has failed spectacularly in recent years. Let's give them a prize!
    Norwegian satire at its best: "No thanks, we don't want to join you, but here - have a meaningless medal from us!" Even funnier than giving it to a US president.
    Who's in the running for next year? Basher al-Assad?
    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Actually, it is. Historically it's amazing that Europe has become so cooperative so fast. What I don't like about this move is that it's awarding the EU, not any people were actually involved in making this happen. That's why the timing is also very strange. It's hard to find someone who can take real credit in this endeavor that isn't dead by now.
    That's a cunning ploy so they don't have to fork out the 10 million kroner. Haven't you heard there's a financial crisis on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    As Clemenceau said:A patriot loves his country; a nationalist hates all others.
    Doesn't matter who said it, it's still an outrageous lie.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  9. #59
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LEGERdeMAIN View Post
    What exactly do you mean by this? There have been several wars involving European nations since WWII.
    Yeah there have, of course. What he and I meant is that there hasn't been a Europe-wide war (and of course semi-worldwide, too) like WWII. But when you consider that there have been wars like in the Balkans, and wars which have one way or another involved European nations...yeah. So I don't think "not having another world war" is that stellar as far as "keeping the peace".
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  10. #60
    F CK all I need is U ilikeitlikethat's Avatar
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    How does the EU keep peace again?

    It's too anti Bank of England and the pound and too based in Belgium and too Germanic and Franco for my liking. - How does the EU keep peace? - They should have just gave it to Obama again, he killed Bin Laden.

    Sure my red passport's a hoot and stuff, but, that's about it.

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