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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    There is a lot of tribalism, xenophobia and neo-fascism in modern Europe so I think it would be unwise for anyone to get too confident...
    That is all the more reason to support a strong Europe. What you describe is (at least in part) a result of the recent weakening of the EU. Nationalism is on the rise and the antidote is more Europe, not less.
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Is it really so impressive that there hasn't been a Europe-wide war since WWII?
    No, not really. Europe pretty much bleed itself dry in WWI and WWII, plus the realities of the Cold War meant two superpowers militarily dominating the continent for another 50 years. You're not going to have too many wars in that type of geo-political situation. Also periods of relative peace and cooperation are not entirely unprecedented in European history. The post-Napoleonic period was relatively peaceful, and the major powers cooperated in the Concert of Europe. Then the period of 1870-1914, where you could easily cross borders without a passport, and an emerging sense of a common European identity was in the air.

  3. #13
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Much of what has been said, has been said.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Interesting that virtually no one on this forum living outside the EU seems interested. Not surprising, I guess.

    I tend to agree that this is meant to make the EU feel better about itself in a time of deep crisis. A bit lame. Is it really so impressive that there hasn't been a Europe-wide war since WWII?
    Besides the presidential elections....

    Right now, I'm more worried about what THIS country is doing. Too many sets of problems I might add...

    I'm positive there are lots of problems in the EU that cannot be ignored, and I am definitely looking at two (Greece and Spain especially.) I'm quite sure if anything starts in Europe... it is because of 4-5 EU countries.

    What is different about this and of WWI and WWII is that the Europe countries aren't necessarily divided, and that is the thing that needs to be prevented if possible.

    @pinkgraffiti

    It is quite laughable considering all the things going on in Europe right about now.

    But, I think it is plausible that the people who voted the EU into the Nobel Prize is just trying to keep relations from straining at a time it REALLY is straining.

  4. #14
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkgraffiti View Post
    the current "war" that we are having, because although it isn't military, in depth it is just like a war to the people of sourthern Europe (myself included) and mostly let's not forget the number of wars outside of the continent that the EU has kept and helped finance over the years and even now (Syria for instance).
    If demanding that Southern Europeans live within their means in return for monetary assistance that Germany et al can ill afford to give constitutes 'war', then how do you define endangering the economies of hundreds of millions other Europeans with unsustainable debt?

    As for Syria, while I don't think the West really has a dog in that fight (unless we are chain-ganged into war by Turkey), how in the abstract is allowing a brutal dictator to kill his own people without opposition morally superior to arming rebels that one views as freedom fighters?

  5. #15
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    What I don't like about this move is that it's awarding the EU, not any people were actually involved in making this happen.
    You might be surprised, but people actually feel as if they received this award, just for being citizens of the EU. That, I think, does more good than awarding any individual would have done.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    There is a lot of tribalism, xenophobia and neo-fascism in modern Europe so I think it would be unwise for anyone to get too confident...
    And there's not anywhere else?

    The EU is still way more peaceful in contrast to the militarist power blocks like the US and their sattellites.

  7. #17
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    I suppose it depends what parts of the world you are focusing on but the wars in the Balkans were not my idea of peace... The EU apparently tried but failed to do much to stop that.


    EDIT: I'm not saying that tribalism, xenophobia etc don't exist in other parts of the world, of course they do. However, Europeans spend so much time trumpeting their intellectual and moral superiority over America that I occasionally want to say "at least the North American continent didn't slaughter itself twice in massive wars in the twentieth century."

    (I am a Canadian living in the UK, in case you are wondering about my background in this.)
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  8. #18
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    You might be surprised, but people actually feel as if they received this award, just for being citizens of the EU. That, I think, does more good than awarding any individual would have done.
    I'm an EU citizen (and have lived in the EU for ten years) and among my friends we just seem kind of amused by it. I'm not sure what the widespread reaction is but I think a lot of people may feel that way. We were joking about how we should get a free trip to Oslo for our awards, or at least a day off work.
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  9. #19
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    I'm an EU citizen (and have lived in the EU for ten years) and among my friends we just seem kind of amused by it. I'm not sure what the widespread reaction is but I think a lot of people may feel that way. We were joking about how we should get a free trip to Oslo for our awards, or at least a day off work.
    Amused or not, the underlying feeling is the same. 'We' is 'we, the people of the EU', a community.

  10. #20
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Amused or not, the underlying feeling is the same. 'We' is 'we, the people of the EU', a community.
    I just don't think that those protesting over austerity and unemployment in countries such as Spain and Greece are going to be very excited that "they" have "won" the Nobel Prize. I could be wrong though. Northern Europeans are pretty cynical about this sort of thing, that's for sure.

    Maybe the British Isles (I've only lived in England and Ireland) are different because they're not as "European" (they sort of are/aren't Europe) but I am not sure how excited the average EU citizen is about being an EU citizen. But then, Europeans are generally loath to look excited about anything. Cool cynicism is much...cooler.
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