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  1. #61
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    The jump to the center didn't hurt him with with conservatives because he threw enough red meat to the conservatives (e.g. trickle down government, cut PBS, and mentioning the declaration and constitution) and because he ultimately won and people like winners. Winners win.
    I didn't say it hurt his standings with conservatives, I just said that it doesn't convince me that he isn't too conservative.

    Which comes to Rex's point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    I think you're making a highly valid point here, and it's actually one that was made to me last night as well. But I think it's important to point out that as far as his actual record goes in terms of what Romney has done in office, and not just the pandering he's done on the campaign trail, he's always basically been a centrist. I mean, in his own right, Obama relied on fairly leftist rhetoric during his '08 campaign, only to pull fairly hard towards the center once elected. I feel it's crucial point out that what these two men have in common is that they're essentially pragmatic, and regardless of what they talk that fact is gonna make them more alike than they are different.

    That being the case, the question for me is who's actually gonna be able to get more done in the next four years. I feel like it's entirely possible that with a Democrat-held Senate, Romney could be just as stymied as Obama has frequently found himself to be in the past four years. But I don't believe that the Democrats will straight up stonewall the man in the same way that Republicans have done to Obama. Not because they don't want to, but because I feel they've never shown the party discipline necessary to effect that sorta thing. I mean, they were barely able to get their shit together for the two years they held a fuckin' supermajority.
    The thing is, being pragmatic does involve adjusting to your party. Romney has been a chameleon wherever he goes. If the place he goes is the Republican party at the federal level, he's going to be taking on some frightening colors. It seems terribly unlikely that he will throw a big middle finger at the Republican party after being elected. If he doesn't, that's cause enough for me to be concerned, because the Republican party crazy and only getting worse.
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  2. #62
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    I thought Romney won the debate personally. However, I am still probably voting for Obama.

  3. #63
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    As a note on the absurdity of media coverage, I earlier encountered an article with the headline "why it's too early to write off Obama". In less than two days time, Romney went from hanging on by a thread to presumptive winner. The manufactured drama is outstanding. This is like the WWE.

    As for me, I'm going to do what I always do and incessantly check RealClearPolitics.com. I'll be waiting to see if there's any significant motion in the polls over the next week, and then I can decide if this is actually important.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  4. #64
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    As a note on the absurdity of media coverage, I earlier encountered an article with the headline "why it's too early to write off Obama". In less than two days time, Romney went from hanging on by a thread to presumptive winner. The manufactured drama is outstanding. This is like the WWE.
    Yes, but as Jack Hunter notes more wrestling fans are aware that it's all staged.

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  5. #65
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    I thought Romney did very will in the debate. There has never been any question in my mind that he is an intelligent, thoughtful person. Also, I think he has a genuine concern for our country and the people who inhabit it (despite being against many entitlements. tough love anyone?). That said, I favor Obama's policies and will most likely be voting for him come November 6th.
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  6. #66
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Obama responds.

    Obama Campaign Shifts Attack Strategy After Debate

    My thoughts? Those are some great points. They popped into my head while I was watching the debate. Why didn't they pop into Obama's?

    In the age of constant media, it's possible you really can do a media offensive that will pave over the presidential debates, I don't know. But I'd rather see Obama do well in the next two debates than count on that strategy.
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  7. #67
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post

    That being the case, the question for me is who's actually gonna be able to get more done in the next four years. I feel like it's entirely possible that with a Democrat-held Senate, Romney could be just as stymied as Obama has frequently found himself to be in the past four years. But I don't believe that the Democrats will straight up stonewall the man in the same way that Republicans have done to Obama. Not because they don't want to, but because I feel they've never shown the party discipline necessary to effect that sorta thing. I mean, they were barely able to get their shit together for the two years they held a fuckin' supermajority.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    In the bit I saw, Obama seemed to be struggling for words. And where Romney would try to jump in with concrete details (regardless of whether they were accurate or not, althoug hhe stated them confidently), Obama seemed like he just wanted to keep pulling things back to a broad generalized level that didn't contain what Sensors typically refer to as "meat." At some point, an iNtuitive has to jump in and start pressing with specific details, not constantly generalize, if he wants to gain the trust and understanding of a large chunk of the populace. it came off more like the answers someone might give on an essay test if they did not remember the material in detail.
    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    As a note on the absurdity of media coverage, I earlier encountered an article with the headline "why it's too early to write off Obama". In less than two days time, Romney went from hanging on by a thread to presumptive winner. The manufactured drama is outstanding. This is like the WWE.
    If I were to guess, I'd say Obama was counselled that he should not make a mistake. I can imagine the thinking was, "let Romney hang himself." Romney had nothing to lose and of course everything to gain. The problem with Obama is that 1) for all the rhetoric in his campaign 4 years ago, the results are simply not there and he knows this and 2) he came across last night as being high on rhetoric and light on details. It is an extremely bad combination. George Bush the 1st was actually a pretty good president. He didn't take Clinton seriously. Where they are making a mistake and what I have come to realize is there is a very good chance that Obama could lose. Who is going to be able to get more done? What results will matter? There is a part of me that feels like these guys are all full of BS and perhaps my biggest wish is that they not do more harm than good after being elected. I know for sure Obama is going to raise taxes and my confidence is extremely low that this will stimulate the economy. I've thought Obama is a fairly inspiring president. That being said, "Yes we can" is a nice slogan but the fact is we didn't.

    All the election promises.... Does anybody ever capture them and compare them to what happened? Why on earth can't we hold these guys accountable?

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  8. #68
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    All the election promises.... Does anybody ever capture them and compare them to what happened? Why on earth can't we hold these guys accountable?
    The span of time ... only 4 years to shift an economic meltdown that you didn't precipitate, so many variables to account for. And all the while, a 2 party system that by unfortunate design discourages dialogue and cooperation. Difficult.

    It would be nice to just see all the promises written out on a handy "To Do" checklist and come back to that 4 years later and see what got checked off. It would probably make for great campaign literature too. Every Te dom and aux would be in love with that, and it would impress the heck out of me too ...
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  9. #69
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Obama responds.

    Obama Campaign Shifts Attack Strategy After Debate

    My thoughts? Those are some great points. They popped into my head while I was watching the debate. Why didn't they pop into Obama's?

    In the age of constant media, it's possible you really can do a media offensive that will pave over the presidential debates, I don't know. But I'd rather see Obama do well in the next two debates than count on that strategy.
    Interesting article. However, it's this kind of BS that irritates me.

    But Obama himself seemed focused on painting Romney as a figure to be mocked, not feared.
    In his Denver speech, he jabbed back at Mitt Romney's statement from last night's debate that the former governor would take away funding for PBS's Sesame Street Show, despite his fondness for Big Bird.
    "Thank goodness somebody is finally getting tough on Big Bird," he said to laughs. "It's about time."
    "And Elmo!" a man in the crowd shouted back.
    "Elmo, too," Obama responded.


    It doesn't matter if the example Romney provided is stupid. Please back up the rhetoric with some facts please. Tell me why I should care about Sesame Street or Elmo. If you could make a statement on what the cost of PBS is to the taxpayers or how meaningless his arguments are, I might listen to what you are saying. In principle, I know Romney is correct. The government wastes money hand over fist and Obama seems to be expanding that.

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  10. #70
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Interesting article. However, it's this kind of BS that irritates me.

    But Obama himself seemed focused on painting Romney as a figure to be mocked, not feared.
    In his Denver speech, he jabbed back at Mitt Romney's statement from last night's debate that the former governor would take away funding for PBS's Sesame Street Show, despite his fondness for Big Bird.
    "Thank goodness somebody is finally getting tough on Big Bird," he said to laughs. "It's about time."
    "And Elmo!" a man in the crowd shouted back.
    "Elmo, too," Obama responded.


    It doesn't matter if the example Romney provided is stupid. Please back up the rhetoric with some facts please. Tell me why I should care about Sesame Street or Elmo. If you could make a statement on what the cost of PBS is to the taxpayers or how meaningless his arguments are, I might listen to what you are saying. In principle, I know Romney is correct. The government wastes money hand over fist and Obama seems to be expanding that.
    He wasn't explicit there, but the absurdity of it is that PBS costs extremely little. It is a totally irrelevant part of the budget. It's a red herring as an example of government waste, and it's totally impractical as a source of spending cuts.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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