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  1. #21
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    I'm honestly surprised at how well Romney is doing well and how poorly Obama is doing.

    For some reason Jim Lehrer keeps giving Romney a hard time. Maybe Mitt shouldn't had led off the debate with getting rid of PBS and consequently Lehrer's job.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Yeah, that's largely it. Romney was ridiculously prepped for this on a level high above Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Romney's an idiot, and watching him debate would just be depressing. I bet if he didn't have writers and coaches Obama could kick his ass any day.
    I thought Obama got killed. Romney did a very good job. He was confident and had a lot of facts at his disposal. He established facts that showed success as governor in exactly the areas where Obama claims to have an edge. He specifically targeted failures of results of the Obama administration. Obama showed noticeable irritation, lacked energy and seemed weak in comparison. I was pretty surprised how lopsided it seemed to be.

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  2. #22
    Senior Member Little_Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I thought Obama got killed. Romney did a very good job. He was confident and had a lot of facts at his disposal. He established facts that showed success as governor in exactly the areas where Obama claims to have an edge. He specifically targeted failures of results of the Obama administration. Obama showed noticeable irritation, lacked energy and seemed weak in comparison. I was pretty surprised how lopsided it seemed to be.
    I finally agree with you on something.

  3. #23
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Romney won on form. Obama, I think, won on substance but Americans will pay far more attention to substance.
    What America do you live in???

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  4. #24
    ... Tyrinth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Obama came across like he simply didn't do any preparation.
    This is actually exactly what I said to the others in the room after watching the debate. Love him or hate him, Obama usually gives pretty good speeches, but this one had me rolling my eyes at him pretty frequently.
    ...

  5. #25
    Senior Member ms.behaving's Avatar
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  6. #26
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little_Sticks View Post
    He wants to lower taxes on the middle class so that the focus is on strengthening the economy. By doing this, the government makes that money back in federal taxes as the economy improves. It's a sound strategy. And the government can still run programs that they think will help create jobs as well without having to control everything.
    Taxing the middle class stunts growth fundamentally, giving the government more control over the economy; and Obama had his chance to do this and failed miserably, increasing the deficit.

    Really, where is the ambiguity?
    I'm referring to the issue of whether one raises taxes on the wealthy or not, as opposed to the middle class. Romney is against it, though it has never been clear if he's simply against it or further wants to cut taxes on the wealthy like so much of the Republican party, but tonight he said he did not plan on raising it. Obama of course does plan on tax rates going up for the wealthy. I agree with this idea. It takes in more revenue, and takes it from the people with the most money to spare who save the largest percentage of their wealth and do not spend in a particularly stimulating way. It can go toward either fighting the deficit by simply taking in the revenue, or it can lead to stimulus by going into programs that give the lower and middle class more incentive to spend.

    I don't think it's a sound strategy to expect tax cuts, particularly taxes are already this low, to create growth that would make up for the loss of revenue. It seems to me unprecedented, and we do indeed have historical precedent for taxes going up followed by the deficit going down.

    And when precisely did Obama raise taxes on the middle class?
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  7. #27
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    That was actually an error on my part. I meant to say they pay more attention to style.

    I edited the original post.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  8. #28
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Romney won on form. Obama, I think, won on substance but Americans will pay far more attention to substance.
    And the undecided voters? At this point, can you still be undecided if you care about substance at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    That was actually an error on my part. I meant to say they pay more attention to style.

    I edited the original post.
    Noted.

  9. #29
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    And when precisely did Obama raise taxes on the middle class?
    He didn't. They're just out of work.

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  10. #30
    Senior Member Little_Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I'm referring to the issue of whether one raises taxes on the wealthy or not, as opposed to the middle class. Romney is against it, though it has never been clear if he's simply against it or further wants to cut taxes on the wealthy like so much of the Republican party, but tonight he said he did not plan on raising it. Obama of course does plan on tax rates going up for the wealthy. I agree with this idea. It takes in more revenue, and takes it from the people with the most money to spare who save the largest percentage of their wealth and do not spend in a particularly stimulating way. It can go toward either fighting the deficit by simply taking in the revenue, or it can lead to stimulus by going into programs that give the lower and middle class more incentive to spend.
    You know, I actually agree with you on this. Unfortunately, he would probably lose a significant portion of republicans if he were to do this, so I kind of understand.

    I don't think it's a sound strategy to expect tax cuts, particularly taxes are already this low, to create growth that would make up for the loss of revenue. It seems to me unprecedented, and we do indeed have historical precedent for taxes going up followed by the deficit going down.
    Precedents only matter, if the application is the same. Otherwise, apples and oranges.

    And when precisely did Obama raise taxes on the middle class?
    My bad. I was typing as I was thinking. That's true that he has not directly, but he has lowered the value of the middle class indirectly through resulting inflation of his failed policies, whether or not that was his intention.

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