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  1. #131
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquarelle View Post
    How was it debatable? The transcript from the address in the Rose Garden clearly showed him referring to it as an act of terror. Yes, it is debatable whether he meant in a general sense or was specifically calling it a terrorist act, but you can't debate whether he said the words.
    Generally, I agree with you; I'm still inclined to think the moderator can't choose to make those corrections for one candidate and not another. (The VP Debate moderator actually was criticizing/pushing both sides, so that still seemed balanced.)

    Big-picture wise, though, if Romney's success in the debate hinges only on that one brief instant of time where the moderator made that comment, then he already lost. It honestly doesn't change anything, it just gives one side a nail on which to hang the griping hat it was already gripping with two hands.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  2. #132
    Starcrossed Seafarer Aquarelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Generally, I agree with you; I'm still inclined to think the moderator can't choose to make those corrections for one candidate and not another. (The VP Debate moderator actually was criticizing/pushing both sides, so that still seemed balanced.)

    Big-picture wise, though, if Romney's success in the debate hinges only on that one brief instant of time where the moderator made that comment, then he already lost. It honestly doesn't change anything, it just gives one side a nail on which to hang the griping hat it was already gripping with two hands.
    Yeah, Candy jumping in may not have been totally appropriate, but she did also specify that Romney was also right that it took 2 weeks for the Obama administration to say it was for sure a terrorist attack and not related to protests. I'm just saying, the fact itself is indeed a fact. It's not debatable.
    Last edited by Aquarelle; 10-17-2012 at 09:26 AM. Reason: fix weird comma usage
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  3. #133
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    I had mixed feelings about last night's debate. I will say though that if "winning" a debate is a function of relative gains resulting from a candidate's performance, then the second debate went to Obama. He was able to reclaim the ground that he lost in the first debate, and effectively challenge Romney to the point that Romney started to lose focus towards the end of the debate. He accomplished what he set out to do.

    In order for Romney to really come out as a clear winner against Obama again, he would have had to do three things a)hold the ground that he'd gained in the first debate (which he more or less did); b)prevent Obama from gaining ground (which he didn't do); and, most importantly, c) indisputably build on the momentum that he created from the first debate. We won't know for sure whether he did c) until the next round of polling comes out, but since the chattering class is already reporting this thing down more or less partisan lines it's not looking likely.

    But like I said my feelings are kind of mixed about Obama's "win" simply from the perspective that some wins than others. Like I was pointing out to someone last night, the President was able to control the debate, but that's not necessarily gonna equate to any love in the polls.

    I got kind of an odd twinge of truthiness last night when I came across an article from RCP talking about how if their polling plays out as predicted, then we're gonna be in a '00 situation where Obama wins the electoral vote, but Romney wins the popular vote. After last night, I feel that's exactly how this is gonna play out. I feel Obama conceeded a lot of independent voters in the first debate when he looked so baffled on the economy, and his performance last night was nowhere near strong enough to win them back. Meanwhile, even with his hard pull to the center, I don't think Romney's gonna pull off Virginia or Ohio. I don't care what his numbers look like right now. I'm still fairly solid on the idea that Obama's going to win this election, but the kind of cultural fallout that will ensue as a result? That I have no clue about.
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  4. #134
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquarelle View Post
    Yeah, Candy jumping in may not have been totally appropriate, but she did also specify that Romney was also right that it took 2 weeks for the Obama administration to say it was for sure a terrorist attack and not related to protests. I'm just saying, the fact itself is indeed a fact. It's not debatable.
    Yet, within 10 minutes of her saying that conservative fact checkers were calling her a liar. Their argument was that he did not directly say it was a terrorist attack, but rather mentioned "acts of terror" generally in close proximity to talking about the attack. Ofc this misses the point that for days after the attack the administration was going on and on about a video causing the attack in a spontaneous protest so I don't see that it really matters all that much what he said briefly at a rose garden speech.
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  5. #135
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I watched Audition tonight instead of the debate, and you know what? I'm not sorry... not until one of the candidates starts cutting off body parts for theater's sake.
    I love that movie....I wish I had watched that instead of the mediocre stuff I watched last night.

  6. #136
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Yet, within 10 minutes of her saying that conservative fact checkers were calling her a liar. Their argument was that he did not directly say it was a terrorist attack, but rather mentioned "acts of terror" generally in close proximity to talking about the attack. Ofc this misses the point that for days after the attack the administration was going on and on about a video causing the attack in a spontaneous protest so I don't see that it really matters all that much what he said briefly at a rose garden speech.
    I don't see that it really matters all that much since no candidate I'm aware of would endorse the death of Americans overseas or support terrorism, yet people are going to exploit what details they can in this election just to win points and make the other guy look like a shithead.

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    I love that movie....I wish I had watched that instead of the mediocre stuff I watched last night.
    It had such a low operating budget (from what I could tell), but I was impressed with what the director and actors did with that. Pretty impressive.

    In comparison, the debates wouldn't have had a leg to stand on.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #137
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    "I am not an advocate of Enlightenment. On the contrary, I see it as a form of light pollution that prevents us from seeing the stars." You really mean it, hm?
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    it's just intellectual laziness to want the facts laid out in such a manner rather than piecing together the facts from the postdebate reporting from various sources and personal research.
    If you want to advocate dumbing down the masses and pouring the truth down their throat you're more than welcome.
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  8. #138
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I don't see that it really matters all that much since no candidate I'm aware of would endorse the death of Americans overseas or support terrorism, yet people are going to exploit what details they can in this election just to win points and make the other guy look like a shithead.
    Who said Obama endorses the death of Americans???

    The argument is that Obama's administration was incompetant in keeping the embassy safe from a planned terrorist attack and then tried to cover up their incompetence by blaming the attack on spontaneous protests.

    If both those allegations are true than this isn't a matter of exploiting mere details.
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  9. #139
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    If you want to advocate dumbing down the masses and pouring the truth down their throat you're more than welcome.
    I think your method will achieve the goal of dumbing down the masse much more easily, because people are just not paying enough attention.

  10. #140
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    I think your method will achieve the goal of dumbing down the masse much more easily, because people are just not paying enough attention.
    So you're going to make them intellegent by giving them a central authority that will convey to them "the facts."

    You just can't avoid the totalitarian nature of what you're advocating.

    I have a better idea. Why don't we decrease the level of influence of democracy by stripping the president of all the extra powers that have been taken from congress over the past few decades.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
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