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  1. #61
    almost nekkid scantilyclad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    I think there's already enough immorality around for my son to be exposed to, we don't need to add any more by putting a big government stamp of approval on it.

    Your son can't catch gay, nor can he be peer pressured into homosexuality. I don't see what is immoral about homosexuality.
    If your son was gay(and that is always a possibility)..wouldn't you want him to have the same rights as a straight person? Wouldn't you want him to have equal opportunities?
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  2. #62
    Senior Member Priam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    This one I've never understood. Why would a hospital bar you from seeing someone?
    Because you are not family. They can bar you from ICU contact and, upon the family's request, from seeing your spouse at all if he/she is unconscious or not considered competent to make decisions.

    That's what wills are for. Once again, you have an avenue without changing marriage laws.
    And wills are contested, as well as overturned, on an incredibly regular basis. Plus some things, such as pensions and Social Security benefits, are only transferable to married partners.

    As well... have you considered what it takes in legal fees and paperwork to even put together the most basic, flimsy shields and protections the law can provide in these circumstances? Yet a straight couple can get drunk, waltz down to their clerk and pay a minimal fee to get airtight legal benefits in one go.

    As for immigration, I think the laws need a complete overhaul. Marriage doesn't even mean you have smooth sailing in bringing a family member over to the US. I have a co-worker who had the process drag on for years.
    Agreed. At least, however, they have a process to try!

    But basically, it comes down to completely different world views. I believe people have freedom to make choices in their lives, but those choices don't necessarily have to be codified by the government, if it's not something that's good for society as a whole. I personally don't want to live in a society where homosexuality is treated as just another trait to somebody like race or ethnic group, because I don't believe it is that. Maybe you do want to live in that environment. I think there's already enough immorality around for my son to be exposed to, we don't need to add any more by putting a big government stamp of approval on it.
    Once the big immoral word is invoked, I tap out. I think there's nothing immoral, and indeed something very socially conscious, about two people of whatever gender falling in love and deciding to make a long-standing personal commitment in front of their community and whatever deity they may want to invoke that they are, from this moment onward, a family. Anyone who's willing to take that seriously has my respect and support.

    Yet I also realize that I build such a statement based on my own internal framework of values, past history and emotions. That's not something one can really debate, except inasmuch as my statements of value connect with you in some way and cause a re-evaluation. But it's beyond my control in any formal sense.
    "The subject chooses to sit in shadow and search for wisdom by reflecting upon his trial. The problem is not that he is cold and wet, but that cold and wet seems problematic, so he embraces those hardships in order to best them."

  3. #63
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    But basically, it comes down to completely different world views. I believe people have freedom to make choices in their lives, but those choices don't necessarily have to be codified by the government, if it's not something that's good for society as a whole. I personally don't want to live in a society where homosexuality is treated as just another trait to somebody like race or ethnic group, because I don't believe it is that. Maybe you do want to live in that environment. I think there's already enough immorality around for my son to be exposed to, we don't need to add any more by putting a big government stamp of approval on it.
    I can respect that. But hey, out of curiosity when did you make the straight choice?
    There is no such thing as separation from God.

  4. #64
    Rats off to ya! Mort Belfry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
    Gay marriage - Completely against it. Marriage is religious and should be defined by religious groups as they see fit.
    So atheists shouldn't be allowed to get married? And marriages that existed before organised religion existed shouldn't be precedent?

    Should it be that because religion dominated societies for so many centuries and still has a grip on marriage, that those who aren't religious shouldn't be able to share the same legal opportunities afforded in marriage?

    Is somebody who is more religious than someone else, more married? If somebody "loses a faith" inside a marriage are they immediately divorced?
    Why do we always come here?

    I guess we'll never know.

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  5. #65
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Priam View Post
    Because you are not family. They can bar you from ICU contact and, upon the family's request, from seeing your spouse at all if he/she is unconscious or not considered competent to make decisions.
    Yes, but why? What is the hospital's reason for this? And do they have security forcibly remove someone because they are not legally family?


    Yet I also realize that I build such a statement based on my own internal framework of values, past history and emotions. That's not something one can really debate, except inasmuch as my statements of value connect with you in some way and cause a re-evaluation. But it's beyond my control in any formal sense.
    Yeah, I agree. And to me, my own internal framework of values and past history shows clearly that homosexuality is not something to be embraced by society, no matter how strong the predisposition to that behavior might be. ceecee called me "intolerant" earlier. I do my best to tolerate people, that doesn't mean that I have to approve of everything every person does or believe that the government should either. The thought police have grown strong in recent years when it comes to this issue, that's for sure.

    Anyway, I'm not expecting to convince anybody of anything, but the original post asked an open question to anyone to state their views so I did.

  6. #66
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    Yes, but why? What is the hospital's reason for this? And do they have security forcibly remove someone because they are not legally family?
    Gay South Florida www.miamiherald.com/gay

    Yeah, I agree. And to me, my own internal framework of values and past history shows clearly that homosexuality is not something to be embraced by society, no matter how strong the predisposition to that behavior might be.
    I would be very interested to hear what past experiences you have had that have led you to those conclusions.
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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mort Belfry View Post
    If somebody "loses a faith" inside a marriage are they immediately divorced?
    Yes, a bolt of lightening comes down, splits the marriage bed right in half, what God hath torn asunder, let no man repair.

  8. #68
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scantilyclad View Post
    Your son can't catch gay, nor can he be peer pressured into homosexuality. I don't see what is immoral about homosexuality.
    If your son was gay(and that is always a possibility)..wouldn't you want him to have the same rights as a straight person? Wouldn't you want him to have equal opportunities?
    Like I said, totally different world views. It's not likely I would be able to come up with a way for you to understand when we're obviously so far apart, and likewise I can't fathom viewing it that way. I'm sorry that i'm not a good debater or writer on this type of issue, but I have tried many times in other forums and seemed to have failed miserably to do so, I haven't had any breakthrough which allows me to explain things that the Holy Spirit makes clear to me every day.

  9. #69
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
    I can respect that. But hey, out of curiosity when did you make the straight choice?
    Every single day I make that choice.

  10. #70
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    According to that article, it was not the hospital's official policy but an individual acting on their own. So I still don't understand why a hospital would have that as an official policy.

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