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  1. #21
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
    Gay rights - I hate that they want more rights than anyone else.
    Like straight people?

    Gay marriage - Completely against it. Marriage is religious and should be defined by religious groups as they see fit.
    How can you say marriage is religious when a judge can perform the ceremony, when the state, which is supposed to be separate from the church, awards benefits according to one's marital status, and when completely non-religious people, like atheists, still get married?

    Most homosexuals are not religious and therefore have no way or reason to be married.
    Even if that's true (which I doubt) there are still very good reasons to get married. Tax benefits, for one, and probate laws differ once your married. The same benefits do not apply to civil unions or domestic partnerships, which is one of the main reasons gay people want marriages. The benefits and protections levied by the state are disparate.

    If there's serious call, I'm sure some religious group will step up and do it for them... The government should have freeform family unit designation. Civil unions. This extends to all life forms, so if Ms. Smith wants her little fluffy to be part of the family with all rights and privileges, there's nothing wrong with that.
    See above.

    Gay adoption - Adoption requirements should be established by those caring for children. The parent(s) probably selected the group that they gave the child up to, and that group should be able to choose who they will or will not allow to adopt children from them.
    What if they're racist? Same deal?

    They should have no more privileges than single people, IMHO.
    Do you mean to say that a couple should be treated as one person?

  2. #22
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    I can't imagine that any deity worth his weight in aether would truly concern himself with something as pithy as human sexuality.

  3. #23
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    I can't imagine that any deity worth his weight in aether would truly concern himself with something as pithy as human sexuality.
    But it says so in the Bible and the Quran, which are the most widely accepted religious scriptures on the Earth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  4. #24
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    But it says so in the Bible and the Quran, which are the most widely accepted religious scriptures on the Earth.
    Although your statement is rhetorical, I'll ask why you would ever ascribe to popular opinion as an indication of absolute fact?

  5. #25
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    Although your statement is rhetorical, I'll ask why you would ever ascribe to popular opinion as an indication of absolute fact?
    Well said. I'll have to remember that.

    If I believe every old religiously inspired popular opinion, then I guess the world is flat, the world occupies the center of the universe, and life spontaneously springs from the inanimate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  6. #26
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    If I believe every old religiously inspired popular opinion, I guess the world is flat, the world occupies the center of the universe, and life spontaneously springs from the inanimate.
    Even when rubberbanded together, these ideas are far less absurd than the belief that homosexuality is a sin.

  7. #27
    only bites when provoked
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    How so? Generally, I've only heard of gay people who want the same rights as everyone else.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    Like straight people?
    They have the same rights. Some of their chosen activities are illegal. "Rights" efforts almost invariably want preferential treatment. They already get preferential treatment under the law. Against.

    So you are okay with it as long as some religious denomination does it?
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    How can you say marriage is religious when a judge can perform the ceremony, when the state, which is supposed to be separate from the church, awards benefits according to one's marital status, and when completely non-religious people, like atheists, still get married?
    You are such an SJ.

    The government overstepped it's bounds. Legalizing homosexual marriage (or any form of marriage) forces it upon religious groups. Separation must go both ways. You can't expect them to stay out of your affairs if you force them to do things against their tenets. Want to start a war you'll lose? Fuck with religion.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    Even if that's true (which I doubt) there are still very good reasons to get married. Tax benefits, for one, and probate laws differ once your married. The same benefits do not apply to civil unions or domestic partnerships, which is one of the main reasons gay people want marriages. The benefits and protections levied by the state are disparate.
    Tax benefits = Exploitation of those not given them. I'm completely against that. There should be no bonus for marriage, civil unions, or otherwise.
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    Disclaimer: The above is my opinion and mine alone, it does not mean I cannot change my mind, nor does it guarantee that my comments are related to any deep-seated convictions. Take everything I say with a whole snowplow worth of salt and call me in the morning, if you can.

  8. #28
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
    They have the same rights. Some of their chosen activities are illegal. "Rights" efforts almost invariably want preferential treatment. They already get preferential treatment under the law. Against.
    Ugh. I'm quoting it once to preserve the logical incoherence. I'll take it apart below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
    They have the same rights.
    Well that's clearly not the case as I already explained. Probate privileges and statutes do not apply to domestic partnerships while they do for marriage. In most states, and under federal law, sexual orientation is only protected on a intermediate scrutiny basis as opposed to strict scrutiny, like race, sex, age, and national origin. The rights are clearly not the same.

    Some of their chosen activities are illegal.
    Like? Sodomy? Those laws were overturned in Goodrich (from what I remember).

    "Rights" efforts almost invariably want preferential treatment.
    Way to challenge those generalizations! That's just ignorant. I'm not even going to bother with it.

    They already get preferential treatment under the law. Against.
    Where do they get preferential treatment?

    The government overstepped it's bounds. Legalizing homosexual marriage (or any form of marriage) forces it upon religious groups.
    How so?

    Separation must go both ways. You can't expect them to stay out of your affairs if you force them to do things against their tenets. Want to start a war you'll lose? Fuck with religion.
    Like I said before, marriage isn't a religious tradition anymore. It's a commonplace social tradition.

    Besides, your logic isn't convincing. Should religious people be allowed to refuse to marry interracial couples?

    Tax benefits = Exploitation of those not given them. I'm completely against that. There should be no bonus for marriage, civil unions, or otherwise.
    No bonuses across the board's cool by me. Exploitation of benefits not given to them is a worthless statement because it assumes that the benefits are properly denied.

  9. #29
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
    They have the same rights. Some of their chosen activities are illegal. "Rights" efforts almost invariably want preferential treatment. They already get preferential treatment under the law. Against.
    I'm having some trouble understanding what you are talking about. Could you provide some examples?

    The government overstepped it's bounds. Legalizing homosexual marriage (or any form of marriage) forces it upon religious groups. Separation must go both ways. You can't expect them to stay out of your affairs if you force them to do things against their tenets. Want to start a war you'll lose? Fuck with religion.

    Tax benefits = Exploitation of those not given them. I'm completely against that. There should be no bonus for marriage, civil unions, or otherwise.
    Well since it is unlikely that they are going to take away those rights from married couples, are you opposed to giving same sex civil unions all the same rights as marriage, but just not calling it marriage?

    And why did you not say anything about adoption? Did you change your mind?
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  10. #30
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    What? That is a very common argument made against gay marriage. "If we let the gays get married then we have to let the polygamists marry however many wives they want and the zoophiles marry their horses and dogs."
    The problem being?
    There is no such thing as separation from God.

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