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  1. #181
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    A certificate is not legally recognized. Only a license is, genius! Jesus Christ, you're so fucking lazy that you're not willing to look up a simple (but very important) definition on your own.

    This entire debate is about the economic impact of marriage. Yet you refuse to acknowledge this subtle but important difference. It's the crux of your entire fucking debate.
    The point is that a certificate can be traded in for a license, so who the fuck cares?! It's not like *I* can give out a certificate, so dispensing the license, or a substitute for that license, is irrelevant.

  2. #182
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    The point is that a certificate can be traded in for a license, so who the fuck cares?! It's not like *I* can give out a certificate, so dispensing the license, or a substitute for that license, is irrelevant.
    If a church gave a certificate to a gay couple, could they trade that in for a license?

    The certificate is a piece of paper that has no legal significance. Only a license has legal significance and those are dispensed ONLY by the state!
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #183
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    The point is that a certificate can be traded in for a license, so who the fuck cares?! It's not like *I* can give out a certificate, so dispensing the license, or a substitute for that license, is irrelevant.
    Actually it's the other way around. The license can be traded in for a certificate. The gov. has to OK the pending marriage and issue the license before the officiant can marry the couple and sign the certificate and send it back to the gov.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  4. #184
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
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    Lateralus,

    Allow me to extend my deepest appologies for thinking you a moron. It has become clear to me that you have developed most gracefully since we last spoke. Your deep potential for empathy pulls at my heart strings, and your fine understanding of the intricacies of grammar and syntax in relation to meaning and intent are truly superb.

    Finally, someone who understands that even if you haven't thought deeply about something, speaking from the heart as opposed to the ass truly counts for something and yields the kind of progress that can change our world.

    Bravo.
    There is no such thing as separation from God.

  5. #185
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    If a church gave a certificate to a gay couple, could they trade that in for a license?

    The certificate is a piece of paper that has no legal significance. Only a license has legal significance.
    I don't think this is the case, either. The license isn't really complete without being turned into a certificate and filed with the state. In many if not most states, marriage licenses expire if you don't get the certificate within 30 or 60 days or something.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  6. #186
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I don't think this is the case, either. The license isn't really complete without being turned into a certificate and filed with the state. In many if not most states, marriage licenses expire if you don't get the certificate within 30 or 60 days or something.
    But the certificates aren't a monopoly of the church. You just need someone licensed by the state to perform marriages. You could go to a 'chapel' in Las Vegas to get a certificate, for example.

    Licenses are a monopoly of the state.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #187
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    But the certificates aren't a monopoly of the church. You just need someone licensed by the state to perform marriages. You could go to a 'chapel' in Las Vegas to get a certificate, for example.

    Licenses are a monopoly of the state.
    Yes, and the state decides who can get married and also who can certify a marriage. But the marriage certificate certainly has legal significance after the officiant sends it back to the state.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  8. #188
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Yes, and the state decides who can get married and also who can certify a marriage. But the marriage certificate certainly has legal significance after the officiant sends it back to the state.
    Not really. The IRS will not accept a certificate as proof of marriage for tax purposes, and that's what this thread is about, the economic impact of marriage. A certificate is really no different than producing a utility bill as proof of residence. I seriously doubt many people consider their utility bills to be legal documents.

    A certificate, alone, is a worthless piece of paper.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #189
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Not really. The IRS will not accept a certificate as proof of marriage for tax purposes, and that's what this thread is about, the economic impact of marriage. A certificate is really no different than producing a utility bill as proof of residence. I seriously doubt many people consider their utility bills to be legal documents.

    A certificate, alone, is a worthless piece of paper.
    Dude, so is a license. You can't show a marriage license as proof of anything if you never use it to get married. You need the certificate to complete the circuit.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  10. #190
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    that's what this thread is about, the economic impact of marriage.
    Maybe if you say it harder, it actually will be.
    There is no such thing as separation from God.

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