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  1. #151
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
    Just to add something to all this:

    Seeing that 5 pages of discussion about gay rights mostly by people who have no personal stake in the matter whether for or against absolutely infuriates me.

    True, I realize that we all have a right to discuss it, people are going to discuss it regardless of how it makes me feel and that the majority of those arguing (at least here) are in agreement with me, blah blah.

    But still. My constitionally guarenteed right to the pursuit of happiness is under attack, and it's mostly out of my hands.
    How do you know that? I don't know yet if one or both of my children is gay. If so, I'd want them to be able to form a union with their partner. Or don't you think that having someone close to you who is affected by it is a personal stake?

    It seems like you can't win if you're gay. People think you're totally promiscuous, but when you want to form a monogamous union with someone, those very same people don't want to allow that, either.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  2. #152
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I think that forcing it on the entire populace
    Jesus fucking Christ.

    Anyone who's ever said this or even implied it: stfu. It's better to let people think you're an idiot then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

    The allowance of gay marriage doesn't equate to a rainbow clad priest showing up at your front door dragging a preselected person of your same gender and performing the rite of marriage without asking if anyone objects. If you don't approve of gay marriage, then don't get one, and mind your own fucking business.

    FUCK.
    There is no such thing as separation from God.

  3. #153
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    How do you know that? I don't know yet if one or both of my children is gay. If so, I'd want them to be able to form a union with their partner. Or don't you think that having someone close to you who is affected by it is a personal stake?

    It seems like you can't win if you're gay. People think you're totally promiscuous, but when you want to form a monogamous union with someone, those very same people don't want to allow that, either.
    I meant by people who don't identify themselves as gay.

    But yeah. You hit the nail on the head. Trying to show that being gay doesn't make you this, that and the other thing is a bit like trying to show that you're not crazy. Of course you don't think you're crazy, that's just what a crazy person would say!
    There is no such thing as separation from God.

  4. #154
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Slow and steady wins the race, but if the NeoCons and the religious right get their way then legislation that would outright outlaw same sex marriages will be passed and the result will be an equality movement turning into a civil rights movement.
    That could be the case, but I really doubt there will be any state where the issue gets enough popular support to actually outlaw gay marriage, that includes states like Texas. I think people are better off being patient. Real change comes with a change in public opinion, not through government force. Force only leads to unrest.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #155
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    That could be the case, but I really doubt there will be any state where the issue gets enough popular support to actually outlaw gay marriage, that includes states like Texas. I think people are better off being patient. Real change comes with a change in public opinion, not through government force. Force only leads to unrest.
    Following the status quo is not what leads to change. Sometimes, you have to say things and do things that hurt peoples' feelings to get your point across, Lateralus.
    There is no such thing as separation from God.

  6. #156
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
    Jesus fucking Christ.

    Anyone who's ever said this or even implied it: stfu. It's better to let people think you're an idiot then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

    The allowance of gay marriage doesn't equate to a rainbow clad priest showing up at your front door dragging a preselected person of your same gender and performing the rite of marriage without asking if anyone objects. If you don't approve of gay marriage, then don't get one, and mind your own fucking business.

    FUCK.
    I'm not really sure how to respond to this emotional outburst, but I'll try.

    You have to realize that not all humans are capable of 'live and let live', many forum members might call them SJs (and even some SPs). I agree that their position is not logical, but that's not really relevant. You'll have to deal with them directly if you wish to change their opinion. My point was simply that forcing them to accept same sex unions would lead to an increase in civil unrest. That's a reality you just have to deal with, whether you like it or not.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
    mostly by people who have no personal stake in the matter whether for or against absolutely infuriates me.
    Too bad. Welcome to every debate ever.
    I don't wanna!

  8. #158
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    You have to realize that not all humans are capable of 'live and let live', many forum members might call them SJs (and even some SPs). I agree that their position is not logical, but that's not really relevant. You'll have to deal with them directly if you wish to change their opinion. My point was simply that forcing them to accept same sex unions would lead to an increase in civil unrest. That's a reality you just have to deal with, whether you like it or not.
    Clearly I'm aware that not all people are capable of live and let live, but thanks for the condescending attitude.

    And I know what your point was. It's incorrect on two fronts. No, I don't have to just deal with it, and quite frankly, I'm not opposed to civil unrest.

    And for the love of God, has anyone stepped back to notice that gays are not the ones turning this into a big deal?
    There is no such thing as separation from God.

  9. #159
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
    Following the status quo is not what leads to change. Sometimes, you have to say things and do things that hurt peoples' feelings to get your point across, Lateralus.
    Following the status quo? Your perspective is limited. Younger generations will be more receptive to your cause. It's simply a matter of time until your goal is reached.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #160
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by booyalab View Post
    Too bad. Welcome to every debate ever.
    You're absolutely right, booyalab. I can totally see how a white, republican, Christian midwesterner could identify with being discriminated against.
    There is no such thing as separation from God.

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