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View Poll Results: Did Obamacare Slow the Recovery?

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  • Yes

    4 26.67%
  • It's likely (>50% chance)

    2 13.33%
  • It's unlikely (<50% chance)

    2 13.33%
  • No

    7 46.67%
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Results 51 to 60 of 78

  1. #51
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    As it stands now, the current healthcare situation in US is flawed. Healthcare coverage is not required, yet hospitals cannot turn down people at the ER. This particular situation gives rise to Tragedy of the Commons, specifically that there are people who can afford health coverage that instead choose to allocate that money for something else, yet when the a medical emergency arises, the hospital must absorb their financial gamble. And of course, the result of that is the unfair financial burden on those that "play fair" and have insurance, since the hospitals are forced to raise prices to offset the losses from the uninsured ER patients.

    To avoid this freeloader scenario, we have two options: either turn down people at the ER, or make healthcare coverage mandatory. Since the first option is unconscionable in a civilized society, that leaves us only with one rational choice. As to whether the healthcare should be provided by regulated private insurance companies or by the government is a whole different debate altogether.
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  2. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Interesting statistics on sick days below. 40% of companies have paid time off, which means that days people are sick is irrelevant unless it involves someone going on disability. In 2002, 71% of companies had traditional sick days and that's down to 54% now.

    http://www.worldatwork.org/waw/adimLink?id=38913

    Also, I think people for the most part are taking sick days (when they are actually sick that is) is because they or a child has the cold or flu and I don't think Obamacare is going to do that much to reduce that.
    Yeah you guys need family friendly working and a working time directive and all the good stuff membership of the EU gives us.

  3. #53
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Interesting statistics on sick days below. 40% of companies have paid time off, which means that days people are sick is irrelevant unless it involves someone going on disability. In 2002, 71% of companies had traditional sick days and that's down to 54% now.

    http://www.worldatwork.org/waw/adimLink?id=38913

    Also, I think people for the most part are taking sick days (when they are actually sick that is) is because they or a child has the cold or flu and I don't think Obamacare is going to do that much to reduce that.
    I would presume that any time a sickday is taken, you see a decrease in productivity. People get called in, they're almost certainly not at their optimal performance (I know I never am when I'm on some weird schedule), the employer chunks out 2 days of pay instead of 1. Sick days are easy to see though. You'll have a harder time distinguishing between poor performance from a chronic, untreated illness and an employee that just sucks at their job.

  4. #54
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    As to whether the healthcare should be provided by regulated private insurance companies or by the government is a whole different debate altogether.
    And it is not a debate we can ignore either. I've heard people hail PPACA as a landmark health reform of our time, but I doubt this is the case. Hopefully, it is short-lived.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    [i'm a troll]
    Until you actually deal with the argument in the op, which you have yet to do even once.

    I understand, though: profit-maximizing conditions, marginal revenue, marginal cost, equilibrium points... it all must be so confusing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rail Tracer View Post
    Continue. Just made it somewhat easier for you, but really annoying for other people to see notifications.

    Do I have to bold every single sentence also?

    I just quoted what I can easily find. For the others harder ones to notice, you can look for yourself, because I can't hold your hand in looking at these things.

    Along with my original qoutes... these.
    I understand that you think the assumptions you made were somehow embedded in there, but simply quoting a whole bunch of stuff doesn't actually prove it. How about you form an argument about something specifically that I said that shows that what you said is true. Otherwise, you're just up in your head imagining nonsense.

  6. #56
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Until you actually deal with the argument in the op, which you have yet to do even once.

    I understand, though: profit-maximizing conditions, marginal revenue, marginal cost, equilibrium points... it all must be so confusing.
    I don't think you understand what those words mean. This would explain your confusion. I, on the other hand, do understand. Now, get back to work on your theorem!

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    As it stands now, the current healthcare situation in US is flawed. Healthcare coverage is not required, yet hospitals cannot turn down people at the ER. This particular situation gives rise to Tragedy of the Commons, specifically that there are people who can afford health coverage that instead choose to allocate that money for something else, yet when the a medical emergency arises, the hospital must absorb their financial gamble. And of course, the result of that is the unfair financial burden on those that "play fair" and have insurance, since the hospitals are forced to raise prices to offset the losses from the uninsured ER patients.

    To avoid this freeloader scenario, we have two options: either turn down people at the ER, or make healthcare coverage mandatory. Since the first option is unconscionable in a civilized society, that leaves us only with one rational choice. As to whether the healthcare should be provided by regulated private insurance companies or by the government is a whole different debate altogether.
    This is all true (except it's not quite a "tragedy of the commons" problem, it's simply a free rider problem), but it's not the question asked in the OP.

    The question asked in the OP was, "Did Obamacare Slow Down the Recovery?" (more specifically, the jobs recovery), and no one has actually been able to offer an economically sound counterargument that it did not.

  8. #58
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    This is an interesting article.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/28/bu...pagewanted=all

    It talks about a significant spike in health care premiums in 2011. One question in my mind is how it can be substantiated that Obamacare is what caused the spike. Healthcare costs are like any other costs. They affect income and that does impact how many people are hired.

    Healthcare insurers have had their financial results impacted by fewer numbers of people having insurance (because they are unemployed). That may have something to do with increasing premiums.

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  9. #59
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    The question asked in the OP was, "Did Obamacare Slow Down the Recovery?" (more specifically, the jobs recovery), and no one has actually been able to offer an economically sound counterargument that it did not.
    I am sure you know that it is impossible to prove a negative.

    As for the charts, there is this whole correlation vs causation issue.
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  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    I am sure you know that it is impossible to prove a negative.
    Yes, but not a single person who has voted in the negative has even dealt with, let alone refuted, the argument in the op.

    There's not being able to prove a negative, and there's not even being able to come close to dealing with a legitimate argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    As for the charts, there is this whole correlation vs causation issue.
    Yes, there is, which is why I said it was not proven, but it does seem to point in that direction.

    More to the point, though, the charts are just empirical evidence supporting the underlying argument.

    I have not heard a single sound counterargument against the underlying economic argument.

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