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View Poll Results: Which style of management and view of human nature would you like to see prevail?

Voters
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  • Theory X (Please explain)

    1 14.29%
  • Theory Y (Please explain)

    5 71.43%
  • neither (This can mean a lot of things. Please explain)

    1 14.29%
  • both (This seems confusing. Please explain)

    0 0%
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Results 11 to 16 of 16

  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    The descriptions make X sound pretty bad...but essentially it's incentive and punishment - it doesn't HAVE to be cruel. Y is creativity and for esteem in one's work.

    But I don't see a problem with having a well run X. If people do the job well, they get incentives. As a worker, having my own sense of esteem in doing a good job is important to me in large part because I just like performing well, I think that process makes me a better person, it doesn't have to be reinforced by the environment but that's nice. I'm ok with a clear job description, and good incentives (aka $). Excessive punishment and distrust isn't a good thing ever. Supposedly that's more likely to happen in X and that is probably true, but I don't think it must be done like that. Simply: you don't do a good job, you don't get paid as much. You keep doing a bad job, you get fired.

    I don't really understand what the key differences are here.
    X assumes people cant find their ass with both hands, therefore X removes responsibility for anyone to find their ass with both hands.

    It may not he authoritarian or coercive but it could simply be paternalistic, if you dont have to think you can rapidly get to the point were you dont want to think.

    I'm totally convinced that X reigns, Y should reign but X does instead and it has for long enough to make Y seem radical or novel. Before X became as prevalent as it is today there were lots of examples of autonomous and self-organised associations at large and in the work place, unions are just the longest lived example of it, and society at large. Conservatives would like an Y society to provide rich folk with even more tax relief and replace responsible government with representative government, socialists used to want Y workplaces to control the economy, in the process replacing politics, or even government altogether, although both them dreams our really just that, dreams of Y in an X world.

  2. #12

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    BTW I totally love this topic, it was awesome to see someone post about it. Was almost as great as Patches ability to summon up wikis on old arcade games.

  3. #13
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Y, because if you assume people are shitty, they're going to be shitty. There's no reason for them to rise above. In Y, people are supported and encouraged. Y points towards the idea of work and life being inherently fulfilling and meaningful.

    Though this is assuming your management objective is having a good workplace and not just a profitable one. Because X might make you more money, even while it fucks everyone but you over.

  4. #14
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    Y is ideal, but X is sometimes necessary.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    a lot of attention being paid to management expectations but what about the workers expectations? I'd agree that expectations have effects, but the street goes both ways. it's not just top down, and even if it was there are limits to the amount of control you can exert to change behavior.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  6. #16
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Though this is assuming your management objective is having a good workplace and not just a profitable one. Because X might make you more money, even while it fucks everyone but you over.
    I think that's debatable.

    You shoulda seen the Spicer driveshaft plant that I worked at before it was shut down. We made driveshafts for the Dodge Durango, and the Prowler. The place was a depressing grungy pit with mostly temps working there, with too high quotas, and people gave fuck all about quality control.

    These are important components of vehicles that people are actually going to buy and drive that we were making there. Didn't give a shit. Worked on broke ass machines that would glitch up because the fittings were worn, for example high pressure hydraulic clamps that would some times slip and spit out the part with nearly enough force to take your head off, or the hoses would crack and start to leak and you end up with fluid on the floor. Fucked up jury rigged wiring that 'maintenance' would do to 'fix' things and it just ends up sparking, or you end up with a welding machine where the big rubber shield doesn't come down 50% of the time and sparks fly everywhere. An oil fire actually started because of that once.

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