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  1. #21

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    Y--up.

    You got that standard liberal response down.

    Think outside the box? Nope? Couldnt interest you in that? Well, have a nice day then.

  2. #22
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Y--up.

    You got that standard liberal response down.

    Think outside the box? Nope? Couldnt interest you in that? Well, have a nice day then.
    Your response is the knee-jerk reaction to rejecting a position outside your own - just dismiss the person without explanation in such a way to imply you are superior without demonstrating it or presenting a convincing argument.

    I am interested in hearing a convincing position in opposition to my own, and that is precisely why I typically do have a nice day.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    Your response is the knee-jerk reaction to rejecting a position outside your own - just dismiss the person without explanation in such a way to imply you are superior without demonstrating it or presenting a convincing argument.

    I am interested in hearing a convincing position in opposition to my own, and that is precisely why I typically do have a nice day.
    No, it wasnt, I can tell when someone thinks they've covered all the angles and any further communication with them is just going to be sparring or a game.

    That's alright though, you're entitled to your opinion. I'd encourage you to think again. Speak to you in a couple of years.

  4. #24
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    No, it wasnt, I can tell when someone thinks they've covered all the angles and any further communication with them is just going to be sparring or a game.

    That's alright though, you're entitled to your opinion. I'd encourage you to think again. Speak to you in a couple of years.
    Your personal attack in place of reason makes it appear that you cannot respond to my position. Don't do it for me since you have my mind completely figured out, but do it for those open minded readers passing through this thread who at this point could conclude that you don't have a way of showing my position to be false. If I'm hopeless maybe someone else isn't?

    And if you don't, yes, I will call you chicken.

    @Lark, if you had an open mind about my posts, and if you have read any of them, you should know how I approach debate and topics. Maybe you don't know anything about my posting. You are being a real jerk to me. Does it look like I've tried to cover all the bases on this topic? I am in the process of trying, but you know what? I think what I know is merely the tip of the iceberg, and I think what you know is incomplete as well because the human mind cannot fully comprehend reality. I think you chose that particular attack because you thought it would be a button, and in a way it is because I care about the process of learning. Normally I wouldn't say anything, but you seem to have moments when you are reasonable and other moments when you are not in what you express in your posts. I do not presume to know how your mind works or if you are open to new information. That is your personal boundary. You have publicly invaded mine and have been judgmental without cause.

    I'm not going to passive-aggressively wish you a nice day, but I will encourage you to take a step back and think about this exchange in a new light.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    Your personal attack in place of reason makes it appear that you cannot respond to my position. Don't do it for me since you have my mind completely figured out, but do it for those open minded readers passing through this thread who at this point could conclude that you don't have a way of showing my position to be false. If I'm hopeless maybe someone else isn't?

    And if you don't, yes, I will call you chicken.
    And I'll not worry about that, or consider anyone casually browsing a forum as likely to be persuaded one way or another on any major topic by something written there.

  6. #26
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    I've also read some of the self-righteous reactions from people who flocked there to support them and described how polite everyone was as if that had anything to do with morality.
    I think it gives Fe a bad name.

    When I went there in the past (only a few times), I almost felt ill at the "politeness" to be honest. It felt manufactured, forced, and unreal to me -- like the time I've ever listened to Christian radio, seen PTL on TV, or the time I actually visited Focus on the Family HQ out in Colorado (hey, I *had* to do it, just as a novelty ). The "politeness" factor just seemed very unreal to me, like either it was extremely fake in presentation OR for it to be authentic the participants had to be "stepford-wived" in a sense. It reminded me of the sanctimonious aura surrounding some of the Bible studies I attended over my long immersion in evangelicalism, where no one could actually think outside the box or address their actual feelings, it was all about conformance to the "way you were supposed to feel and think if you were a good little person and followed all the rules." To me, faith includes "being honest" about where you're at and what feelings you have and what thoughts you have, even if it doesn't conform to the party line... you can't actually become a better person (or even be human) if you're just blocking out large parts of your actual self and/or inner experience. Honesty is necessary to grow.

    I like real people. These people weren't trying to be hypocrites, they're actually trying to be 'good people' -- but in the process I felt like they were bleaching out their humanity ... I wasn't dealing with "real" people anymore, just remakes of an archetype.

    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    And if you don't, yes, I will call you chicken.
    Lol. I see what you did there.

    Anyway, my advice is not to waste time on it. It's the standard modus operandi by said person on topics like this (which is too bad, because on other topics there can be a lot of insight provided by said person), and only gives me heartburn to persist in; I usually just call out the behavior once per thread, more so that everyone else is aware of it, then move on.... If someone just enters a thread to take a swing, then refuses to engage when someone calls them on it, they're not worth the time of any more response.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    The issue with Chick-Fil-A is not that they expressed their freedom of speech to hold an opinion valuing traditional marriage. There are deeper human rights violations regarding their financial support against gay marriage.

    Chick-Fil-A donated money to the Family Research Council which the Southern Poverty Law Center designated as an official hate group. The Family Research Council spent 25K in 2010 lobbying congress to not condemn the Ugandan "Kill the Gays" bill which would have subjected homosexuals in Uganda to the death penalty.

    Then people go out to self-righteously support Chick-Fil-A's "freedom of speech" by stuffing themselves with greasy chicken. It is difficult to be human and not be enraged and nauseated by such a series of events. There are times when a strong emotional response is the most reasonable response when comprehending a situation in a holistic manner.

    White history is everything that is taught in white privileged societies. Every month is white history month. People who are privileged typically cannot see their privilege because it forms the foundation of their every assumption about reality. People who benefit the most from a system tend to see it as fair and unbiased.

    White history is also based on the "Great Man" approach to understanding progress. This contributes to this idea that "I as an individual have achieved, I built my company all alone, and deserve X,Y,and Z". This is a modified way of comprehending progress because individuals that contribute are the culmination of many smaller, anonymous achievements upon which they build their knowledge and contribute.

    Christopher Columbus presented in first graders reports is a pristine example of "the great man of white history". He "discovered" America and is one of our forefathers. He was a brutal man who committed genocide, but that part is left out of most school plays.
    The worlds tiniest violin was created for this exact occasion.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I think it gives Fe a bad name.

    When I went there in the past (only a few times), I almost felt ill at the "politeness" to be honest. It felt manufactured, forced, and unreal to me -- like the time I've ever listened to Christian radio, seen PTL on TV, or the time I actually visited Focus on the Family HQ out in Colorado (hey, I *had* to do it, just as a novelty ). The "politeness" factor just seemed very unreal to me, like either it was extremely fake in presentation OR for it to be authentic the participants had to be "stepford-wived" in a sense. It reminded me of the sanctimonious aura surrounding some of the Bible studies I attended over my long immersion in evangelicalism, where no one could actually think outside the box or address their actual feelings, it was all about conformance to the "way you were supposed to feel and think if you were a good little person and followed all the rules." To me, faith includes "being honest" about where you're at and what feelings you have and what thoughts you have, even if it doesn't conform to the party line... you can't actually become a better person (or even be human) if you're just blocking out large parts of your actual self and/or inner experience. Honesty is necessary to grow.

    I like real people. These people weren't trying to be hypocrites, they're actually trying to be 'good people' -- but in the process I felt like they were bleaching out their humanity ... I wasn't dealing with "real" people anymore, just remakes of an archetype.




    Lol. I see what you did there.

    Anyway, my advice is not to waste time on it. It's the standard modus operandi by said person on topics like this (which is too bad, because on other topics there can be a lot of insight provided by said person), and only gives me heartburn to persist in; I usually just call out the behavior once per thread, more so that everyone else is aware of it, then move on.... If someone just enters a thread to take a swing, then refuses to engage when someone calls them on it, they're not worth the time of any more response.
    I have to call some major bullshit here. You're really going to chalk this up to Fe? Seriously?
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  9. #29
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    I have to call some major bullshit here. You're really going to chalk this up to Fe? Seriously?
    I wrote in shorthand, I guess you took it more literally and are now making an issue about it.

    In my shorthand, I'd lump "southern hospitality" in as an Fe-style trait -- it's a way you are expected to behave and it has very specific aspects to it -- what you can say and can't say, all as part of being a good person and being polite.

    The Evangelic movement has the exact same kind of social style of what you are supposed to say and not say, etc. And whether you follow the rules or not will make you a 'decent' person or a "bad" person.

    I don't know why you're pissing on me about it, I'm far more Fe than Fi myself. it's not like I have something against Fe.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I wrote in shorthand, I guess you took it more literally and are now making an issue about it.

    In my shorthand, I'd lump "southern hospitality" in as an Fe-style trait -- it's a way you are expected to behave and it has very specific aspects to it -- what you can say and can't say, all as part of being a good person and being polite.

    The Evangelic movement has the exact same kind of social style of what you are supposed to say and not say, etc. And whether you follow the rules or not will make you a 'decent' person or a "bad" person.

    I don't know why you're pissing on me about it, I'm far more Fe than Fi myself. it's not like I have something against Fe.
    I do not believe my response was "pissing on you." Your personal cognitive preferences don't change whether or not the assessment seemed overly simplistic, which it was. Thank you for elaborating.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

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