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  1. #11
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I think we should get rid of the death penalty instead.
    I believe it should be within the power of the next of kin to recommend mercy and life imprisonment, meaning life in prison without release, instead of execution.

    No conscientious objector to the death penalty should have that sentence carried out in their name, instead I think the state should carry it out as the agency with a nominal monopoly on the use of force for those that want it carried out.

    There are conditions and caveats to this, I'm personally not a fan of capital punishment given the history of the gilford four and birmingham six, although I can understand revenge and in most cases where its cut and dried and not indiscriminate or out of proportionality to the original offence I think mercy or clemency should be exercised in prosecuting those responsible for it. Its the same for those who in self-defence use disproportionate or lethal actions, they did not initiate force and therefore should be treated differently from those that did.

  2. #12
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acronach View Post
    not trying to be inhumane or anything but cost cuts are cost cuts XD and if you're gonna kill someone because they've done something that warrants it, all I have to say is karma, bitch. get up and get it over with
    It's already flawed. People get exonerated with new evidence all the time. I don't think speeding the process to cut out he appeals process is at all ethical.

  3. #13
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    No conscientious objector to the death penalty should have that sentence carried out in their name
    Yeah. It's in my will.

  4. #14
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    What do you mean?

    I dont think anyone should be compelled to watch anything.
    You dont get insurance if you dont pay the fee. is paying the monetary fee for prison etc enough when we're talking about ethical and legal matters touching upon how society regulates the human risk factor of criminality ?

    if its just about paying the right tax then what does it mean? That the value of this whole ethical, legal, society wide insurance system with far reaching consequences for and of the civilization and country it emerged in is just worth the price of a cell or an injection?

    Would you say there is no difference between real estate and property management and emprisonment and death penalty and that the value of the life and the event can be encompassed by the financial transactions operated ?
    Can you decide you want to save money on the insurance and change the roots of violence or would you be operating on the wrong level ?

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  5. #15
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acronach View Post
    why SHOULD it cost more?
    Obviously the actual execution isn't what's so expensive. It's the extended appeals and judicial processes that the Death Penalty permits. Making sure you are executing the right guy is considered kind of a big deal, surprisingly. And they still get the wrong one sometimes.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  6. #16
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    The only civil duty a person has regarding the death penalty is to work towards the abolition of such a barbaric practice

  7. #17
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    was tired when i responded to this...i dont see the purpose of watching someone die.
    Last edited by jcloudz; 09-18-2012 at 04:47 PM.
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  8. #18
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    I do not think that systematically eliminating people who are already incarcerated should fall into the domain of justice.

    We cannot trust the system to catch the right people and kill them only for the 'really bad' crimes.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    The only civil duty a person has regarding the death penalty is to work towards the abolition of such a barbaric practice
    Agreed.

    There is an interesting text by Umberto Eco though in which he (half-jokingly, half-seriously) suggests that all supporters of the death penalty should be made to watch executions. If you think they are ok, you should also be ready to watch them. If you think them too gruesome and barbaric to watch, you shouldn't support them. Or something along the line.

    But then again Eco - like me - is European and any country that wants to join the EU has to abandon the death penalty, so the strong rejection might be cultural (on the other hand, the USA are the only Western democracy that practices the death penalty).




    EDIT: Strike that. The General Assembly of the United Nations calls for a worldwide moratorium. It is not just a European thing.

    Oh, and fun fact, you can get the death penalty for drug trafficking (Indonesia, Saudi-Arabia, Malaysia, Singapur, Thailand, Taiwan), corruption (China) or robbing a bank (Saudi Arabia).
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  10. #20
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    I think it is a huge risk to potentially have the wrong guy.. and I also agree that the death penalty is a much higher cost potentially than life in prison.

    But I can't say I wouldn't want to push for, and be witness to, the death penalty of some serial killer who took the life of one of my family members or children. I WOULD, however, definitely be witness to the death. And I would want to ensure that it was definitely the right guy, even if that meant a lengthy trial and appeal process.

    I don't think anyone should hide from the ugly aspects of ideals they support. I don't really like the death penalty, but I can't say I didn't grow up with it being an option, and that I accept it as an option currently. A dead man is no longer dangerous. And there are so few people capable of properly guarding prisoners as it stands. It is naive to believe that we will have higher quality guards for more dangerous people being allowed to live. I don't know the solution--If there were one that manifested and the prison systems were self sustaining I suppose I'd be more open to the idea. But just getting rid of one option without creating a solution doesn't do much good and it doesn't give solace to the general populace.

    I think having self-sustaining prison systems would be a good start though.
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