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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    It's seems to me a very difficult case to make that the official representatives of the Republican party are no more anti-science than the Democratic party. It would appear they are many magnitudes more so. And I find it also hard to believe anyone could be generally anti-science and not apply a manner of thinking detrimental to everything in law and government.
    I refer you to the video posted above by Discobiscuit.

    I know plenty of libertarians/conservatives who are extremely pro-science.

    In fact, I'd say I, and most of them, are more truly scientific than most any fucking Democrat.

    Believing the science needs to be rigorous and hard-tested, not just accepted because it falls in line with your party ideals, is the sign of a truly scientific mind (not one that just tries to pass off their public policy proposals with a guise of scientific credibility).

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Given your rather strong beliefs about these competing philosophies, I find it silly that you are now equivocating the two parties to rebuke my argument.
    What's silly about equivolating the mutual idiocy of many of their representatives and voters?

    And I'm not a Republican nor a Democrat, nor do I ever plan on becoming one.

    Frankly, you seem to have a rather poor understanding of my position.

  2. #52
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    It is interesting how the approach to reasoning presented in the two parties/political positions are reflected in the reasoning of its followers. Using inflammatory language in place of clarity and reason is one example. There are some in this thread who contribute to that side (Right-wing) of the debate, but the rejection of evidence based reason, the use of dramatic and negative language, are two examples of grasping at straws.

    The argument of "so what, your party is just as bad" is likely the worst form of reasoning possible in political debate and yet it is used often. "So what?" So, it is basically an admission that people know the party they are sharing a position with is in the wrong. Assuming both parties are equally wrong, then that is an excellent reason to not identify with either. It is also a reason to scrutinize one's own party all the more rather than taking a childish position that is reminiscent of "mom, he's doing it too!" when doing something wrong. It is typically a mistake to invest a personal identity in a political party because that can negate a sense of distance to be willing to reject it when it is wrong, rather than having a team-spirit mentality which has nothing to do with reason, but just personal ego and identity.


    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Didn't say anti science, he said idiots.

    And yes a large part of the voting populace are idiots.
    Which is exactly why we need to teach critical thinking skills, and why it is suspect when one party actively rejects that notion. This begs the question, which party is going to benefit the most from a populace of idiots?
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  3. #53
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I refer you to the video posted above by Discobiscuit.

    I know plenty of libertarians/conservatives who are extremely pro-science.
    Have a third party, do they?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    In fact, I'd say I, and most of them, are more truly scientific than most any fucking Democrat.
    Of course you would. Just saying it doesn't make it so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Believing the science needs to be rigorous and hard-tested, not just accepted because it falls in line with your party ideals, is the sign of a truly scientific mind (not one that just tries to pass off their public policy proposals with a guise of scientific credibility).
    This is obviously true. What is not obviously true is that this is primarily the problem of the Democratic party or of left-wing political philosophies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    What's silly about equivolating the mutual idiocy of many of their representatives and voters?
    Because they obviously are different. Just generally saying they are equally idiotic doesn't serve any purpose. It dodges the whole crux of the matter. It also hardly suffices as a defense for anyone. Since Republicans have practically cornered the market on rejecting science, what are the key idiotic themes of the Democratic party?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    And I'm not a Republican nor a Democrat, nor do I ever plan on becoming one.

    Frankly, you seem to have a rather poor understanding of my position.
    Yes, I'm sure you're too big for either party, and your position is too sublime for me to understand.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    [trolling]


    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Of course you would. Just saying it doesn't make it so.
    Nor does your saying the above make it not so.

    The truth is what the truth is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    This is obviously true. What is not obviously true is that this is primarily the problem of the Democratic party or of left-wing political philosophies.
    No, it's not completely obvious.

    Nor would I make any such restrictive claim.

    But there are some pretty good reasons to believe it's applicable in the context of this conversation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Because they obviously are different.
    And they are also obviously the same, in that regard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Just generally saying they are equally idiotic doesn't serve any purpose.
    Actually, it does.

    Perhaps it's not your purpose, but that doesn't really matter now, does it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    It dodges the whole crux of the matter.
    No, it makes a perfectly legitimate point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    It also hardly suffices as a defense for anyone.
    It shows the hypocrisy of complaining solely about the idiots on the other side.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Since Republicans have practically cornered the market on rejecting science, what are the key idiotic themes of the Democratic party?
    The former is as unsubstantiated a claim as the one you tried to pass off on me above, and the key idiotic themes of the Democrat party are too manifold for me to enumerate all in one post. I've got other things I have to do today.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Yes, I'm sure you're too big for either party, and your position is too sublime for me to understand.
    The former is true, the latter, well, you've just provided pretty clear evidence that you obviously don't understand it.

  5. #55
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Considering this thread is little more than a troll thread aimed at libertarians/conservatives, and is aimed at little more than pointing and laughing at a conservative strawman, it's very telling that you found what you wrote here a worthwhile response to their pointing this out.
    For my part, nothing about this thread attacks libertarians, actually.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    And then follow it up with such garbage as this, that is so completely lacking in self-awareness and so full of party-loyalty, smugness, and condescension, yet somehow you don't even realize it. Honestly: laughable.
    Perhaps removing the party loyalty, this mostly sounds like an uncanny description of yourself.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    For my part, nothing about this thread attacks libertarians, actually.
    There's a broader group (Republicans) that is clearly aimed it.

    I mentioned both because of their uneasy alliance within that party.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Perhaps removing the party loyalty, this mostly sounds like an uncanny description of yourself.
    Remove the party loyalty.

    And, as much as you don't want to believe it, I'm plenty self-aware.

    Smugness and condescension: I would never deny either of those.

  7. #57
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    Anyway, I'm out.

    I've got some other shit to take care of.

    Hopefully, you liberals can take away from this discussion that your political troll threads are pathetic.

    They detract from the discourse, and we'd be far better off if you were to stop making them.

    You think I don't see stuff from liberals/Democrats and think, "What a fucking moron"?

    The thing is: I don't go and make threads about these things.

    Nor do most of the libertarians/conservatives on here.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Not really, that post regurgitated a bunch of errors.

    I've had independent thoughts that bear fruit in the same vein, for better or worse. Yet, I am still liberal and still fond of a regulated market.

  9. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    I've had independent thoughts that bear fruit in the same vein, for better or worse. Yet, I am still liberal and still fond of a regulated market.
    I'm opposed to markets altogether, the ideas which Hayek produced were old by the time he produced them and I think it was he who accurately described himself as a "second hand dealer in ideas", anyone who is capable of doing that and doing it so well could have done something more or better than defend capitalism warts and all.

    Although most people who from the free market seats champion Hayek dont know him well, at a dinner or something with Von Mise he said it was a shame there were not more socialist thinkers and Von Mise responded by saying Hayek was one, if you examine a lot of his work Hayek compares favourably with most modern day liberal democrats, while he was critical of nationalisation of industry and commerce etc. he was not a believer in wholesale slash and burn of social services, public goods, police forces or any of the other stock and trade free marketeers.

    Hayek was also a fan of alternative currencies and multiple currencies rather than gold standards like a lot of capitalist speculators.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'm opposed to markets altogether, the ideas which Hayek produced were old by the time he produced them and I think it was he who accurately described himself as a "second hand dealer in ideas", anyone who is capable of doing that and doing it so well could have done something more or better than defend capitalism warts and all.

    Although most people who from the free market seats champion Hayek dont know him well, at a dinner or something with Von Mise he said it was a shame there were not more socialist thinkers and Von Mise responded by saying Hayek was one, if you examine a lot of his work Hayek compares favourably with most modern day liberal democrats, while he was critical of nationalisation of industry and commerce etc. he was not a believer in wholesale slash and burn of social services, public goods, police forces or any of the other stock and trade free marketeers.

    Hayek was also a fan of alternative currencies and multiple currencies rather than gold standards like a lot of capitalist speculators.

    Opposed to markets, I would be inclined to read should you expound that idea.


    What sorts of alternative/multiple currencies could be used in lieu of gold, other precious metals and materials?

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