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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Yes, but this is a forum heavily biased toward the left-wing, no? We probably don't have many of that common sort of conservative here.

    We have had some though. The various topics about climate change are a good example.

    My precise point is that I do not feel Santorum is a straw man. Not these days.
    He is a straw man, as he's too much of an idiot to even properly explain what he thinks.

    As lowtech redneck demonstrated, his ideas aren't as absurd when filtered through somebody who has a brain.

    (side note: if he really is as anti-evolution as Lateralus has said, then, well, that's more-or-less inexcusable)

  2. #42
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Yes, but this is a forum heavily biased toward the left-wing, no? We probably don't have many of that common sort of conservative here.
    We have had some though. The various topics about climate change are a good example.

    My precise point is that I do not feel Santorum is a straw man. Not these days.
    I dont think there's any sorts of conservative on this forum, not at all.

    There's some hard core capitalists but on every topic besides the economy they're with the, to my mind hard core, liberals.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    [nothing more than trolling]
    Probably not.

    As even the sponge seemed to admit.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Probably not.

    As even the sponge seemed to admit.
    Well you didnt understand his post or mine then.

    Although it was nice of you to make that clear to everyone.

  5. #45
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    He is a straw man, as he's too much of an idiot to even properly explain what he thinks.

    As lowtech redneck demonstrated, his ideas aren't as absurd when filtered through somebody who has a brain.

    (side note: if he really is as anti-evolution as Lateralus has said, then, well, that's more-or-less inexcusable)
    There are way too many Republican senators and representatives that would say that same sort of stuff, on top of people who will vote for said politicians, for me to think Santorum is a straw man.

    Maybe you're doing sort of an inverse fallacy, like the true Scotsman fallacy. I suspect I could spend all day pointing out one idiot Republican after the next and each time you'll come up with a reason he/she is not really representative of the party and accuse me of using a straw man.

    On that note, how much of the Republican party do you think believes in evolution?
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Well you didnt understand his post or mine then.

    Although it was nice of you to make that clear to everyone.
    Yours was just a troll.

    As is usual for your posts.

    And I'd think there was at least a slight air of admission in magic's tone.

    If not, the point still stands: you all regularly make ridiculous threads about libertarian/conservative straw men.

    And the libertarians/conservatives on this forum, well, really don't tend to do the same about liberals.

    It would be more valuable to the discourse if you all realized this, and grew the fuck up.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    There are way too many Republican senators and representatives that would say that same sort of stuff, on top of people who will vote for said politicians, for me to think Santorum is a straw man.
    My point is that I don't care, because I could point to idiot Democrat politicians just the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Maybe you're doing sort of an inverse fallacy, like the true Scotsman fallacy. I suspect I could spend all day pointing out one idiot Republican after the next and each time you'll come up with a reason he/she is not really representative of the party and accuse me of using a straw man.
    No, I'm not doing a true Scotsman.

    I'm saying his gaffes don't represent the strongest versions of the arguments.

    And, in fact, they represent weak and pathetic versions; and, as such, you've, once again, made a thread about a straw man.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    On that note, how much of the Republican party do you think believes in evolution?
    Nor do I really care about this (although, I have seen the numbers).

    If they start making bad policy because of it that affects me, then I'll give a shit.

    If not, then the fact that some significant portion of the idiots that vote for Republican candidates not believing in it, is, well, o welps.

    I can, just like with Democrat politicians, point to a very large % of the Democrat voting population who are complete idiots, too.

  8. #48
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    In Europe its the bankers and finance capital which are crying out for technocrats, especially in places like Greece, to ride rough shode over the will of the electorates and make those democracies safe for business.

    The left wing does not support technocrats, definitely not, there's a hell of a lot of ignorant and vicious hating on "bosses" as a vaguely defined "other" in the ranks of all left wingers, leading to some pretty bizarre performance routines among those who are effectively boss/manager figures within their parties or organisations, especially unions, to try and distinguish themselves from those which are considered to be that way and therefore, by their very nature, "traitors". Its one of the many things totally and utterly paralysising the left wing at this time.

    I'd have to ask what "classical" as opposed to any other variety is, as I understand it most "classical" or early socialism was devoid of government or centralism,

    If there is a fatal conceit involving intellecutal arrogance and self-aggrandizement shouldnt the award go to John Galt?

    Is there no trace in suggesting that your left-wing friends had "trouble understanding" either? I hate that about the right wing, they assume the position of "teacher" to a lot of people who do not need to be taught and by doing so only reinforce their own and frequently others prejudices and stilted, outdated thinking.
    You mean setting conditions for aid money they don't have to accept? In any event, I would be the last person to claim that the EU project is based around the concepts of either limited government or de-centralized authority....quite the opposite.

    Who do you think would be in charge (or in a better position to influence those in charge) of all the centralized beaurocratic institutions that 'protect' the common people from the dangers and external costs of free enterprise? We are talking about elites, not the rank and file.

    'Classical' as in the central planning advocates from Hayek's time, as opposed to the social democrats of today who focus on regulation and redistribution through taxation, all the while justifying their position on the same moral principles which underlay the socialist movements of the past.

    I'm not an objectivists, and John Galt never existed.

    I was not privy to the inner-most workings of their minds, but they no longer asked for explanations after I mentioned Rumsfeld's name. You needn't feel indignant on their behalf, they spend quite a lot of time tag-teaming against me during our bull-sessions (which of course took place in Hooters more often than not), they were not some long-suffering victims of political tirades by an agressive, socially dominant friend.

  9. #49
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    My point is that I don't care, because I could point to idiot Democrat politicians just the same.



    Nor do I really care about this.

    If they start making bad policy because of it that affects me, then I'll give a shit.

    If not, then the fact that some significant portion of the idiots that vote for Republican candidates not believing in it, is, well, o welps.

    I can, just like with Democrat politicians, point to a very large % of Democrat voting population who are complete idiots, too.
    It's seems to me a very difficult case to make that the official representatives of the Republican party are no more anti-science than the Democratic party. It would appear they are many magnitudes more so. And I find it also hard to believe anyone could be generally anti-science and not apply a manner of thinking detrimental to everything in law and government.

    Given your rather strong beliefs about these competing philosophies, I find it silly that you are now equivocating the two parties to rebuke my argument.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    It's seems to me a very difficult case to make that the official representatives of the Republican party are no more anti-science than the Democratic party. It would appear they are many magnitudes more so. And I find it also hard to believe anyone could be generally anti-science and not apply a manner of thinking detrimental to everything in law and government.

    Given your rather strong beliefs about these competing philosophies, I find it silly that you are now equivocating the two parties to rebuke my argument.
    Didn't say anti science, he said idiots.

    And yes a large part of the voting populace are idiots.

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