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  1. #21
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    You know, I always feel like they're about 500 or so years behind us...

    And, considering Islam was founded in ~600 AD, I suppose that makes some sense...

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    My position is, of course, the same as all the other times: stand up for free speech without equivocation, and do not be afraid to do so on account of political correctness or intimidation (either by Islamists or by the Western PC brigade).

  3. #23
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    The creator of the much-discussed video is being a repulsive little pussy by going underground. You make a mess and then you run away? At least have the courage to stand up and actively fight for what you believe in instead of throwing a rock and running away like a bitch.
    He should also make a statement to the press, accepting that he is partly to blame for the deaths of four of his countrymen - for he is. I don't care whether or not it was within his rights to create the video; he has to take responsibility for the events that take place as a result of his actions.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmileyMan View Post
    The creator of the much-discussed video is being a repulsive little pussy by going underground. You make a mess and then you run away? At least have the courage to stand up and actively fight for what you believe in instead of throwing a rock and running away like a bitch.
    He should also make a statement to the press, accepting that he is partly to blame for the deaths of four of his countrymen - for he is. I don't care whether or not it was within his rights to create the video; he has to take responsibility for the events that take place as a result of his actions.
    So... if you created something that caused terrorists to attack a U.S. embassy and kill an ambassador, you're saying you wouldn't be afraid that they could get to you if you admitted you made it?

    Not to mention that it's one thing to take responsibility for causing a rational response in someone, it's a different matter for something like this where it seems more like they were waiting for a dumb excuse than actually having their actions directly caused by the video.
    ...

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    The Islamic world is in the middle of their dark ages. Unfortunately, this is occurring in the modern age, which allows transmission of irrational ideas and superstition to go worldwide (not to mention the travel of fanatical killers and weapons). The Christian dark ages were limited in scope, unless some bloodthirsty Pope started another Crusade.
    Well put.

    Everyone blames Islam, but I think it's really the socioeconomic status of the people that causes the problems. Islam is just the convenient vessel that brings them all together and gives them an overt reason to fight.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  6. #26
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmileyMan View Post
    He should also make a statement to the press, accepting that he is partly to blame for the deaths of four of his countrymen - for he is. I don't care whether or not it was within his rights to create the video; he has to take responsibility for the events that take place as a result of his actions.
    Bullshit....the only people responsible are the Islamists protesting some retarded amuetar movie. And the fact that he is in hiding is due to the vileness of those who would kill him for his movie, not to a character defect on his part (his own character defects, at least in regards to his making the movie, are only worthy of mild social ostracism).

  7. #27
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    Well put.

    Everyone blames Islam, but I think it's really the socioeconomic status of the people that causes the problems. Islam is just the convenient vessel that brings them all together and gives them an overt reason to fight.
    It must be extremely convenient, as others throughout the world have equal or worse socio-economic conditions.

    I don't doubt that socio-economic conditions are a major factor, but I think popular interpretations of Islam is the primary culprit in this instance.

  8. #28
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    It must be extremely convenient, as others throughout the world have equal or worse socio-economic conditions.
    And those areas tend to be where you see more and more Islamic extremism springing up, as opposed to more developed nations (excluding immigration).

    I don't doubt that socio-economic conditions are a major factor, but I think popular interpretations of Islam is the primary culprit in this instance.
    I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. I do think that Islam has a lot of factors that contribute to it's militantism, but that's what makes it even more attractive to those people. Obviously it was the outrage over the video that spawned the protests (exacerbated heavily by people that probably planned the attack in the first place), but if someone has a lot to lose they're going to be a lot less likely to storm an armed embassy over a youtube video.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrinth View Post
    So... if you created something that caused terrorists to attack a U.S. embassy and kill an ambassador, you're saying you wouldn't be afraid that they could get to you if you admitted you made it?

    Not to mention that it's one thing to take responsibility for causing a rational response in someone, it's a different matter for something like this where it seems more like they were waiting for a dumb excuse than actually having their actions directly caused by the video.
    Who made the movie is basically common knowledge: Nakoula Bassely Nakoula, a 55 year old white-collar criminal. What bothers me isn't that he has gone into hiding to protect his life - it's that he refuses to participate in the debate. The issue of anonymity is null, since he could easily be communicating with the outside world via proxy.

    Nakoula knew from the protests over the Danish cartoons (with more than 100 reported deaths) that there was a very big risk of people dying. And yet he went ahead with it. Whether or not they were just looking for a "dumb excuse" is completely irrelevant: Nakoula provided it, fully knowledgeable about the risk. For what? It's not even satire. It's trash, insulting for the sake of it. What is the point? The Danish cartoons at least had the satirical aspect on their side, and were part of an important debate in Danish society, while this moronic video is nothing but hate and has absolutely no other purpose than to insult.

    The cartoonists treated Islam the same way they treat Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism and other religions. And by treating Muslims in Denmark as equals they made a point: We are integrating you into the Danish tradition of satire because you are part of our society, not strangers. The cartoons are including, rather than excluding, Muslims.
    Nakoula, an Egyptian Coptic Christian, made this video because he hates Muslims, not because he was looking to engage in any kind of constructive social criticism. I'm certain he will try to save face by appealing to the ulterior motive of providing social criticism, but his promoter has thankfully made their true motivations very clear.

    He has blood on his hands. The four deaths were a direct result of his video, and he wasn't ignorant to the risks of releasing it. I am overjoyed, though, by the fact that the idiot will be thrown back in prison because he broke his parole.

  10. #30
    ... Tyrinth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmileyMan View Post
    Nakoula knew from the protests over the Danish cartoons (with more than 100 reported deaths) that there was a very big risk of people dying. And yet he went ahead with it. Whether or not they were just looking for a "dumb excuse" is completely irrelevant: Nakoula provided it, fully knowledgeable about the risk.
    Why do you assume that? Is there proof somewhere? There are plenty of dumb people in this world who will do something just for the hell of it without thinking of the consequences.

    And perhaps "dumb excuse" was a poor way of stating it, but do you really see a connection to rational thought in the idea that the best way to get back at a single person on the other side of the world was to attack an embassy which had nothing to do with the guy, and was actually the group of people trying to help relations between us?

    They were looking for an excuse, and they found one...
    ...

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