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  1. #1
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Default The Onion: On the Blissful Ignorance of 9/10/01

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/bli...10-anni,29513/

    I realize that this Onion article is somewhat of a spoof. But how many of us "ignorant" Americans were saying "I told you so!" on 9/11/01? How many of us "ignorant" Americans were thinking, years before, that something like a 9/11 was inevitable? And that it was made inevitable by America's weak foreign policy regarding terrorism particularly during the Clinton presidency, e.g., America's non-response to the USS Cole bombing.

    Every other commentary is specious and full of hot air. I've seen them all, everything from "it was Reagan's fault for supporting the Afghan 'freedom fighters'" to "we shouldn't have had troops in Saudi Arabia in the first place." However, those things did not produce 9/11. 9/11 was produced by America's unwillingness to stop terrorism in its tracks in a proactive sense. 9/11 was produced by the US government sitting on its collective thumbs while terrorism only grew bolder and bolder in its attacks. Yes, the US certainly did bomb a few terrorist camps during the Clinton years - camps which were quickly rebuilt and put back into operation. And they were rebuilt because the terrorists, who were still alive to rebuild them, were not discouraged by any mere slap on the wrist.

    9/11 happened because terrorists were left alive to carry out devious and destructive plots on the US mainland.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #2
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Kill it before it lays eggs

  3. #3
    WALMART
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    You think, eh?


    Interesting opinion.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    You think, eh?


    Interesting opinion.
    Let's create a syllogism out of my opinion.

    Dead terrorists can't create terrorist acts.
    All the terrorists are dead;
    Therefore, they can't create terrorist acts.

    What if that had been the US government's way of thinking and operating during the 1990s?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #5
    WALMART
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Let's create a syllogism out of my opinion.

    Dead terrorists can't create terrorist acts.
    All the terrorists are dead;
    Therefore, they can't create terrorist acts.

    What if that had been the US government's way of thinking and operating during the 1990s?

    Well, I believe terrorist organizations and terrorists in general do not walk around wearing "I'm a terrorist" shirts, for one.


    Second, a terrorist is born every second, and others created doubly so.



    Not to say I do or don't disagree, I just don't find it so black and white.

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    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    Well, I believe terrorist organizations and terrorists in general do not walk around wearing "I'm a terrorist" shirts, for one.


    Second, a terrorist is born every second, and others created doubly so.



    Not to say I don't disagree, I just don't find it so black and white.
    Certainly handling the detection and extermination of terrorists poorly is not going to win the US new friends in the Middle East. Wrongfully killing someone's brother, bombing a person's home, or detaining somebody's father without so much as a trial might be the kind of thing that makes people really, really hate you.

    It'd be silly to believe "They hate our freedom" is the reason America was attacked on 9/11. What seems a bit more reasonable to me is several decades of foreign policy in the Middle East that many people there kind of didn't like, an American tradition that has gotten even worse since 9/11.

    "Just kill all the terrorists" is pretty certainly more effective in theory than in practice. It might be a decent idea to lessen the motivation for non-terrorists in that region to become terrorists.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  7. #7
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    Well, I believe terrorist organizations and terrorists in general do not walk around wearing "I'm a terrorist" shirts, for one.


    Second, a terrorist is born every second, and others created doubly so.



    Not to say I do or don't disagree, I just don't find it so black and white.
    I find 9/11 to be black and white.

    *BOOM* Dead. Done.

    Not us, the terrorists.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #8
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZPowers View Post
    It'd be silly to believe "They hate our freedom" is the reason America was attacked on 9/11. What seems a bit more reasonable to me is several decades of foreign policy in the Middle East that many people there kind of didn't like...
    That. Big-time.

    They "hate our freedom" only in so much as we "exploit" our freedom (in their eyes) to do things they consider immoral and licentious and gluttonous, but I think that just added a lot of fuel to the fire. Ultimately they saw us as the large bully superpower meddling in their way of life and helping their enemies, so we came under fire in the only way they were familiar with and felt effective at.

    At least, that is what I would intuit their perspective would resemble, if I had to take a guess at it.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #9
    WALMART
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    I find 9/11 to be black and white.

    *BOOM* Dead. Done.

    Correct. Belief is made self-evident via action.


    Hard to find lurking thoughts when they lie dormant, however.



    Quote Originally Posted by ZPowers View Post
    Certainly handling the detection and extermination of terrorists poorly is not going to win the US new friends in the Middle East. Wrongfully killing someone's brother, bombing a person's home, or detaining somebody's father without so much as a trial might be the kind of thing that makes people really, really hate you.

    It'd be silly to believe "They hate our freedom" is the reason America was attacked on 9/11. What seems a bit more reasonable to me is several decades of foreign policy in the Middle East that many people there kind of didn't like, an American tradition that has gotten even worse since 9/11.

    "Just kill all the terrorists" is pretty certainly more effective in theory than in practice. It might be a decent idea to lessen the motivation for non-terrorists in that region to become terrorists.

    Even rightfully killing someone's brother =X

  10. #10
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZPowers View Post

    It'd be silly to believe "They hate our freedom" is the reason America was attacked on 9/11. What seems a bit more reasonable to me is several decades of foreign policy in the Middle East that many people there kind of didn't like, an American tradition that has gotten even worse since 9/11.
    Oh, so the terrorists made it worse, not the US. Someone out there is always going to dislike US foreign policy. But in some cases, it's just used as an excuse to kill.

    Anybody remember this excuse for 9/11? Hiroshima! Yes, Hiroshima, a city in a non-Muslim non-Middle East country that the US blew to smithereens with a single bomb 66 years before 9/11.

    If they'll use THAT for a reason, they'll use anything.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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