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  1. #31
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I think my initial point was that we got on their radar by sticking our nose into what they considered their business (whether or not the US agrees about that), and once we were already the enemy, then the Koran could be leveraged against us by the militants. I'm not really sure what you're arguing for, we're not really in disagreement.
    Our disagreement is found in the source of hate. I'm saying that if the Koran did not contain certain passages condemning others and wishing for their death, the terrorist attacks of 9/11 wouldn't have happened.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  2. #32
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhinosaur View Post
    Nah, I think the spikes shortly after 1992 (Clinton) and 2000 (Bush Jr.) were just coincidences.
    However, the Orange threat level terrorist alerts which occur at campaign time are not coincidences.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhinosaur View Post
    There's a lot of information that graph doesn't capture and I kind of regret posting it. Most of those attacks were Palestinians attacking Israel. Plus those are just the ones reported on Wikipedia, which naturally would be biased toward dates after Wikipedia's founding (in 2001).

    Still, though, you have to give some cred to the notion that Western foreign policy is a motivation for terrorism.
    It's an external motive, not an internal motive.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #33
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I think my initial point was that we got on their radar by sticking our nose into what they considered their business (whether or not the US agrees about that), and once we were already the enemy, then the Koran could be leveraged against us by the militants. I'm not really sure what you're arguing for, we're not really in disagreement.
    Perhaps you could say that this wasn't a terrorist attack per se?
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...88B0EI20120912

    It looks like the attack was based on some unflattering cartoon image of Mohammed. Somebody forgot that non-Muslims are not allowed to insult the Prophet either. We are all to obey!
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #34
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Perhaps you could say that this wasn't a terrorist attack per se?
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...88B0EI20120912

    It looks like the attack was based on some unflattering cartoon image of Mohammed. Somebody forgot that non-Muslims are not allowed to insult the Prophet either. We are all to obey!
    I wouldn't know. I wasn't discussing that cartoon, I was discussing 9/11. Thanks.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #35
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I wouldn't know. I wasn't discussing that cartoon, I was discussing 9/11. Thanks.
    "[B]y sticking our nose into what they considered their business" is no longer the excuse. It never was the real excuse for 9/11 or any other attack.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #36
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    "[B]y sticking our nose into what they considered their business" is no longer the excuse. It never was the real excuse for 9/11 or any other attack.
    We disagree. Get over it.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #37
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    We disagree. Get over it.
    At first you declared there was no disagreement between us. I have shown you where the disagreement lies.

    The idea of a "meme" has been degraded to the level of internet pics and sayings. But the idea came from something much more cultural and important. The conflict with terrorists comes down to nothing more than "our memes are greater than your memes."
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #38
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Our disagreement is found in the source of hate. I'm saying that if the Koran did not contain certain passages condemning others and wishing for their death, the terrorist attacks of 9/11 wouldn't have happened.
    I disagree. That sort of thing is like gift wrapping for highly political acts. More than a few forces have demonstrated to the ability to blow up a building or commit a massacre without any old scripture holding it up.

    This is an area where I disagree with some of my fellow atheist friends. I think they try to exploit the 9/11 thing a little too hard, and in the process they come across to me as a little sociologically naive. It's like that one well known cover of The God Delusion, which shows the WTC standing and has the subtext "imagine no religion". When I imagine no religion, I find it still very easy to go from there to imagining a world in which the WTC was destroyed.
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  9. #39
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I disagree. That sort of thing is like gift wrapping for highly political acts. More than a few forces have demonstrated to the ability to blow up a building or commit a massacre without any old scripture holding it up.

    This is an area where I disagree with some of my fellow atheist friends. I think they try to exploit the 9/11 thing a little too hard, and in the process they come across to me as a little sociologically naive. It's like that one well known cover of The God Delusion, which shows the WTC standing and has the subtext "imagine no religion". When I imagine no religion, I find it still very easy to go from there to imagining a world in which the WTC was destroyed.
    I don't use the argument from imagination for anything at all, ever. Just thought I would clear that up.

    When the Jihad meme takes hold, the next step is to start looking for excuses to act on it.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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